# Trump Tariffs Struck Down **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [May 29, 2025, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927 "2025-05-29T00:26:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2025, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/41 "2025-08-31T02:32:33Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Where are these trillions coming from and where are they going? When will the right tire of his constant lying? With the trade “deals” he made with the EU and Japan, he’s claiming they both gave him about $600 billion that he can “invest any way he wants”, so added up, that would be $1.2 trillion. Of course, he doesn’t understand what was actually offered, and that those “investments” are mostly vaporware, and that even if some people in the EU or Japan take advantage of the new opportunities to invest in the US, they won’t let Trump dictate where those investments go. But lucky for him, the MAGAs don’t understand any of that either, so it looks good to them. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2025, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/42 "2025-08-31T16:23:13Z")
The fact this decision was not unanimous makes me think the Supremes will overturn it and go Trumps way on it. Especially as they know congress likely wont pass any motion to approve tariffs now that they’ve already experienced the backlash over it. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2025, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/43 "2025-08-31T17:38:10Z")
I’d love to hear him explain how the consumer doesn’t pay the tariff. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2025, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/44 "2025-08-31T17:50:22Z")
I saw a social media post - from the actual White House - claiming that they’ve collected $8 **trillion** in tariff revenue, so any discussion of reality is wishful thinking. [![](https://i.ibb.co/FkRBsSR6/IMG-2089.png) ](https://i.ibb.co/FkRBsSR6/IMG-2089.png) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2025, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/45 "2025-08-31T17:57:07Z")
Not just in social media. The solicitor-general made a submission to that effect to the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals. Critiqued by an article in the _National Review_, of all places. > **[That Tariff Power We Just Invented? Can’t Live Without It | National Review](https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/that-tariff-power-we-just-invented-cant-live-without-it/)** > > ‘If the United States were forced to pay back the trillions of dollars committed to us, America could go from strength to failure.’ (May be paywalled; can only get a limited number of NR articles per month.) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2025, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/46 "2025-08-31T18:02:59Z")
We’re in a very strange timeline when the _National Review_ and the _New Republic_ are on the same page. > **[Trump’s DOJ Seems Awfully Nervous About the Tariff Lawsuits](https://newrepublic.com/article/199143/trump-worried-lose-tariff-lawsuits)** > > A recent filing from the president’s lawyer presents the court with faulty economic calculations, dubious legal theories, and the distinct scent of desperation. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2025, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/47 "2025-08-31T18:05:26Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I saw a social media post - from the actual White House - claiming that they’ve collected $8 **trillion** in tariff revenue, so any discussion of reality is wishful thinking. > > [https://i.ibb.co/FkRBsSR6/IMG-2089.png](https://i.ibb.co/FkRBsSR6/IMG-2089.png) The subtext adds that Trump’s policies have also supposedly driven “more than $8 trillion in new U.S. investment”, which is equally unlikely. And what a coincidence that the “new investment” figure exactly matches the amount of revenue collected by tariffs! But I suppose it’s not hard to equate two equally imaginary figures. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2025, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/48 "2025-08-31T20:38:55Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I’d love to hear him explain how the consumer doesn’t pay the tariff. **Trump:** _Chyna_ pays the tariffs! **Cultists:** Oh, okay! The way the libtards talk, I thought _we_ paid the tariffs! 🥲 ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/49 "2025-09-03T15:53:58Z")
> [@robby](#): > > The subtext adds that Trump’s policies have also supposedly driven “more than $8 trillion in new U.S. investment”, which is equally unlikely. Yeah, they’re adding up every “promised” investment in the US from deals with the EU and Japan, and just ignoring the fact that’s been talked about, that these investments are mostly vaporware, and may never actually occur, and almost certainly won’t reach the levels discussed. These are _upper limits_ on new investments that the other countries will allow under the new rules, and there’s no reason to think they’ll actually hit those limits. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/50 "2025-09-03T15:55:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > **Trump:** _Chyna_ pays the tariffs! China needs a new advertising blitz: “China pays the tariffs, and _passes the saving on to you!_” Of course it’s stupid, but MAGA will never notice that. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/51 "2025-09-03T21:01:41Z")
Reason has a similar article: > **[The White House says Trump’s tariffs have raised $8 trillion in revenue....](https://reason.com/2025/09/02/the-white-house-says-trumps-tariffs-have-raised-8-trillion-in-revenue-thats-not-even-close/)** > > The administration attributed the $8 trillion figure both to new investment and to tariff revenue. So which is it? Neither. But as to the “struck down” point, we still have to see what the Supreme Court says. So far, they’ve been fairly amenable to the relatively thin arguments that the administration gives and relatively opposed to the conservative/libertarian judicial history that they’re overriding. That said, overturning meritocracy in favor of a return to the spoils system is, legally, a much lighter lift than many of the other things that Trump is going to find himself in front of the court, over. But they could certainly decide to continue backing Trump and say something like that it’s ultimately Congress’ job to decide what does and doesn’t constitute an emergency. If Congress hasn’t issued any objections to the President’s use of emergency powers, then it must really be an emergency. There’s also the issue of “infinite retries”. As I’ve noted elsewhere, I’d like to see a mechanism introduced, through an amendment, that penalizes those who abuse the law or use tortured readings to enable corrupt and partisan policies. But, until that day, all it takes is for the AG to issue some bizarro interpretation of one of all the laws ever passed, to enable some new attempt to forgive student loans, to allow the torture of foreign terrorists, or to allow the president to impose tariffs. A negative Supreme Court decision just means that you move to the next legal misreading on the list. Bondi and friends may already have a backlist of a half dozen alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/52 "2025-09-03T21:31:37Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > These are _upper limits_ on new investments that the other countries will allow under the new rules, and there’s no reason to think they’ll actually hit those limits. But but but Dear Leader tells us that this will be in the form of CASH, payable TOMORROW, that he can spend HOWEVER HE LIKES. How anyone believes his increasingly incoherent bullshit is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/53 "2025-09-03T23:54:27Z")
I lack the acumen to be an elected DEM House/Senate representative But isn’t there some milage to be gained by the DEMs getting on the stump saying that if the White House are claiming USD8 trillion in tariff receipts (year to date) that they have imposed USD8 trillion (year to date) in additional taxes on the US business & consumers? Or if it is actually the exporter who pays the tariff and prices (inflation) have not increased as a consequence … where is all that cash and what are you going to do with it? Or maybe all four points are just fabrications. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/54 "2025-09-04T00:08:35Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > where is all that cash and what are you going to do with it? “Why are we still cutting medicare if we brought in more money than all of last year’s budget in only six months?!?!” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/55 "2025-09-04T00:34:33Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > But isn’t there some milage to be gained by the DEMs getting on the stump saying that if the White House are claiming USD8 trillion in tariff receipts (year to date) that they have imposed USD8 trillion (year to date) in additional taxes on the US business & consumers? > > Or if it is actually the exporter who pays the tariff and prices (inflation) have not increased as a consequence … where is all that cash and what are you going to do with it? There was a report out a month or two ago, giving the total amount of tariffs that had been collected so far (I think a number in the low billions). From that, you can calculate a ballpark inflationary impact. I.e. if you divide by the number of months that the tariffs have been in place and then divide by the population count of the country, then that’s how much more money Americans are spending in a month, because of the tariffs. And, if we’re talking “impact” then that really is the calculation. There’s other things that come into it - like whether people stop buying so much stuff, which has a deflationary impact, and that many of the tariffs will be paid by businesses and that they might not pass on the cost of that to consumers for many months - so the _actual inflation value_ might not follow the _impact value_, but it does genuinely have that much impact. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/56 "2025-09-04T00:41:08Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@penultima\_thule](#): > > > > where is all that cash and what are you going to do with it? > > “Why are we still cutting medicare if we brought in more money than all of last year’s budget in only six months?!?!” “We hate poor people, brown people, and don’t even ask about poor brown women!” AKA: “The cruelty is the point”. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/57 "2025-09-04T01:00:40Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > that many of the tariffs will be paid by businesses and that they might not pass on the cost of that to consumers for many months And of course, if that happens, it means the business is less profitable, which means no raises, no new hires, lowered stock values, less money for routine maintenance, so shit just slowly gets worse all around. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/58 "2025-09-04T18:16:05Z")
One thing that I wonder is, if the tariffs all do ultimately end up to be invalid, then the US government basically came in and outright stole a bunch of money from a wide swathe of the American public. Does that mean a class action suit to try and get all the money back? In general, if the President’s whole plan to use emergencies and executive orders to subvert the law and the power of Congress fails, I feel like that basically turns him into the largest lame duck president in all of history. I mean, it certainly seems unlikely that he’s going to be able to move a pro-tariff policy or an immigration policy rewrite through Congress. Minus rule by fiat, he’s left with the need to negotiate and persuade. So far as I’ve ever seen, Trump’s only ability to negotiate rests on inheriting a power structure built by someone more competent, and abusing that power. And while that probably works initially, over the over term it drives away serious and powerful partners as they successfully extricate themselves from the connection, and then you’re left trying to prop up a failing organization through fraud and usurious loans. In general, I’m not optimistic that he’ll somehow get Congress to change its mind on trashing the economy of the land that they live and have most of their investments in. So, suddenly, he turns from a Big Guy making Big Talk and making Big Moves, to being that guy begging Congress and whining that no one will let him do anything. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/59 "2025-09-04T22:12:21Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > if the tariffs all do ultimately end up to be invalid, then the US government basically came in and outright stole a bunch of money Surely that money should get reimbursed to the international countries/businesses/people who, you know, paid the tariffs? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927/60 "2025-09-04T22:21:28Z")
According to [Heather Cox Richardson](https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/september-3-2025): > [@](#): > > He has said he will take the case before the Supreme Court. > > If he loses there, as Elisabeth Buchwald wrote for CNN, the U.S. might have to pay back more than $210 billion to the American businesses that have paid the tariffs. On Monday, Josh Marshall at _Talking Points Memo_ pointed to a story Louise Matsakis and Zoë Schiffer of _Wired_ reported in late July: **Wall Street companies, including Cantor Fitzgerald, a financial services company run by the sons of billionaire commerce secretary Howard Lutnick since Lutnick joined the Trump administration, have been buying up the rights to collect tariff refunds if the tariffs are struck down.** > > **Marshall notes that while making a bet on an uncertain outcome is a huge part of modern finance, the idea that a commerce secretary’s company is making bets on something the commerce secretary has significant authority over is a perfect symbol of the Trump era.** > > While the Trump family and loyalists cash in on their control of the government, Trump continues to assert that he requires authoritarian powers to “Make America Great Again.” Bolding mine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-tariffs-struck-down/1018927.md?page=4)