# Trump taxes requested **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 4, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037 "2019-04-04T15:13:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/41 "2019-04-04T22:47:23Z")
To slightly dampen the enthusiasm of the teeming millions, it should be pointed out that just because Congress gets to look at the returns doesn’t mean we get to. I’m not a lawyer but reading over the statue that was linked to above, it appears that it is required to be released in a closed door session and it is illegal for any employee of officer of the US government (which as assume includes members of congress) to reveal them or any of the information contained inside. Of course that doesn’t mean that they can’t use the information there in to ask further questions that might be made public, say for example subpoena Deutsche Bank and ask whether or not there might not have been a loan paid off on say November 21st 2016, and where the money to pay it off came from. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/42 "2019-04-04T22:56:12Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > **Shodan** seems to disagree. He has, indeed, implied (“the GOP Senate will ask for everybody’s taxes!!!11!”-- paraphrasing, there) a threat. Not a serious threat-- I don’t believe **Shodan** is a Senator. But it’s an argument based on a threat that **Shodan’s** party can carry out. And I’m curious why he thinks asking for Nadler’s tax returns is equivalent to asking for Trump’s. > > I suspect that I will not hear anything substantial about Nadler’s record in any reply this gets. Well, I myself am concerned for all those future presidents who refuse to show their returns and provide bullshit reasons for not doing so while demonstrating repeated and clear indications of conflict of interest and acceptance of emoluments. Who’s thinking of them? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/43 "2019-04-04T23:08:44Z")
Ooh, does this mean that we can go back to calling all political scandals “\_\_\_\_\_ Dome” again? The -gate suffix is getting boring. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/44 "2019-04-04T23:30:03Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > To slightly dampen the enthusiasm of the teeming millions, it should be pointed out that just because Congress gets to look at the returns doesn’t mean we get to. … I want the public to see the Mueller Report. I don’t really care if the public gets to see the tax returns. I want the Democrats in the House to see those. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/45 "2019-04-05T00:21:32Z")
Looks like the head of the IRS, Charles Rettig, is just “some guy” that was already part of the upper-level IRS apparatus, with no particular connection to Trump and probably no strong job prospect worries. So unless he’s a surprise MAGA-hat, I imagine that the most he’ll do is plead a labor shortage and tell them that it will take a few weeks to scrounge the documents up. I would expect the principal angle for defense, if Trump chooses to fight it, would be to plead unconstitutionality. For example, he could take the Roe v. Wade defense and say that his tax returns should be private on the basis of the penumbra of privacy enshrined into the Bill of Rights. But I assume that there are any other number of angles he could take, given that he is aware of the request and lives in a country where you can take pretty much anything whatsoever to court and, given that he’s the President, it would be unlikely that the court would decide that the argument was too stupid to allow to proceed to trial. Though, whether Trump will fight it or not…who knows? On the one hand, he’s already had the FBI go through all of it and take everything that there possibly is to take to convict him of criminal activities out and note it down. At this point, he’s already boned in every way that really matters. But, Trump probably fears embarrassment more than he fears jail, so the big question will be: Just how embarrassing are the numbers in his returns? How much debt is he in? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/46 "2019-04-05T00:41:17Z")
The most sensible way to fight it would be to argue that it’s unconstitutional, either under the “penumbra of privacy” or self-incrimination grounds. But this is Trump we’re talking about. When he fights it, it’s probably going to be on grounds of executive privilege, which in his mind means “Trump gets to do whatever he wants”. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/47 "2019-04-05T00:50:34Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Just how embarrassing are the numbers in his returns? How much debt is he in? Tax returns show income, not debt. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/48 "2019-04-05T01:13:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Tax returns show income, not debt. They also show how creative the filer is with using loopholes. What do you think the odds are that his tax returns are the one thing about Trump that’s on the level? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/49 "2019-04-05T01:58:48Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Tax returns show income, not debt. Given that Trump was able to get away without paying taxes, due to having gone bankrupt, I presume that there’s somewhere in there that you’re able to scribble a debt or two in. Hell, once you’ve figured out that you can go tax free for a decade after a bankruptcy, it might make sense to take yourself bankrupt every decade or so. Overspend to some fake businesses until you’re out of money and then, after bankruptcy proceedings, turn around and have those businesses come back to you as some big customers. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/50 "2019-04-05T02:01:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Tax returns show income, not debt. If you own a business, you can write off certain debts on your tax returns, so your statement is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/51 "2019-04-05T03:12:32Z")
Public service announcement… Orrin Hatch retired January 3, 2019. He is not currently a senator. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/52 "2019-04-05T03:29:27Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Looks like the head of the IRS, Charles Rettig, is just “some guy” that was already part of the upper-level IRS apparatus, with no particular connection to Trump and probably no strong job prospect worries. So unless he’s a surprise MAGA-hat, I imagine that the most he’ll do is plead a labor shortage and tell them that it will take a few weeks to scrounge the documents up. Are you sure about that? [Politico](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/12/internal-revenue-tax-rettig-784974) [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_P._Rettig) He seems to be a 35 year Beverly Hills tax attorney who was on some advisory boards for the California FTB and the iRS but not an ‘upper-level’ IRS employee until named by Trump. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/53 "2019-04-05T04:21:20Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > If you own a business, you can write off certain debts on your tax returns, so your statement is incorrect. Are you sure about that? A company can write-off expenses, not debt in general. IOW, please provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/54 "2019-04-05T04:48:33Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Are you sure about that? > > […] > > [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_P._Rettig) “In 2010–2011, Rettig was appointed by the IRS to serve as Chairman of the IRS Advisory Council (IRSAC) for the last year of his three-year term.” Which, actually is not correct. He was on the IRSAC from 2008 to 2011. He was the chairman of the council for the last year. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/55 "2019-04-05T05:26:57Z")
Were all the “donations” of the Trump Foundation made public? Where did the “$7 to Boy Scouts” info come from? That is my go-to example of how petty this criminal family is. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/56 "2019-04-05T05:41:15Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’m not a lawyer but reading over the statue that was linked to above, it appears that it is required to be released in a closed door session and it is illegal for any employee of officer of the US government (which as assume includes members of congress) to reveal them or any of the information contained inside. Even if it does apply to members of Congress, that isn’t absolute due to the speech or debate clause. It might be illegal for a member of Congress to release the returns to the press, but nothing said during an official proceeding can be a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/57 "2019-04-05T13:38:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, no, it has never been used this way. Heh, nice goalpost move: First you cast doubt on whether it “has been used before”, and then when you’re shown that it has, you modify your claim to “has never been used **this way** ” (emphasis added). And as other posters have pointed out, the reason that this particular law has never been invoked before specifically to request Presidential or even Presidential-candidate tax returns is that for the past several decades, Presidents and Presidential candidates have **voluntarily** released their tax returns. > [@Shodan](#): > > You’re missing the point, which is that it is going to be a liability for everybody, not just politicians, and especially not just for politicians the Dems don’t like. As I pointed out, there is nothing new about invoking Section 6103(f) to request tax data about non-politicians. The only new thing here is invoking it specifically to request the tax returns of a sitting President. And the only reason that’s new is that no previous President in the last 40 years has been enough of a shameless grifter to try to hide his tax returns from the public in the first place. So no, the only one missing the point here is you. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/58 "2019-04-05T13:55:10Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > If you own a business, you can write off certain debts on your tax returns, so your statement is incorrect. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Are you sure about that? A company can write-off expenses, not debt in general. > > IOW, please provide a cite. You ever deduct mortgage interest? Businesses can do the same thing. > **[Guide to Business Expense Resources | Internal Revenue Service](https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/guide-to-business-expense-resources)** > > Note: We have discontinued Publication 535, Business Expenses; the last revision was for 2022. Below is a mapping to the major resources for each topic. For a full list, go to the Publication 535 for 2022PDF. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/59 "2019-04-05T14:01:59Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And the only reason that’s new is that no previous President in the last 40 years has been enough of a shameless grifter to try to hide his tax returns from the public in the first place. > > So no, the only one missing the point here is you. Right. One primary purpose of the law was to have recourse to deal with a corrupt president. Now that we have corrupt president, they want to stick their heads in the sand. Trump isn’t the only shameless one. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/60 "2019-04-05T14:02:32Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > You ever deduct mortgage interest? Businesses can do the same thing. > > [https://www.irs.gov/publications/p535#en\_US\_2018\_publink1000243138](https://www.irs.gov/publications/p535#en_US_2018_publink1000243138) It may be nitpicking but the interest is an expense, not the debt itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037.md?page=4)