# Trump taxes requested **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 4, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037 "2019-04-04T15:13:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/61 "2019-04-05T15:39:00Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Are you sure about that? A company can write-off expenses, not debt in general. > > IOW, please provide a cite. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > You ever deduct mortgage interest? Businesses can do the same thing. > > [https://www.irs.gov/publications/p535#en\_US\_2018\_publink1000243138](https://www.irs.gov/publications/p535#en_US_2018_publink1000243138) I was thinking of [this](https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc453), which is writing off debts that are owed to you. You can also write off the net loss of a business, which can be construed as a debt. Doesn’t get you out of paying the debt, but you can still write it off. As the King of Debt told us, he loves debt. I’m confident a squiz of his tax returns will disclose why. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/62 "2019-04-05T16:07:34Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Well, I myself am concerned for all those future presidents who refuse to show their returns and provide bullshit reasons for not doing so while demonstrating repeated and clear indications of conflict of interest and acceptance of emoluments. Who’s thinking of them? You mean the ones who promised to release their returns and didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/63 "2019-04-05T16:16:59Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Looks like the head of the IRS, Charles Rettig, is just “some guy” that was already part of the upper-level IRS apparatus, with no particular connection to Trump and probably no strong job prospect worries. So unless he’s a surprise MAGA-hat, I imagine that the most he’ll do is plead a labor shortage and tell them that it will take a few weeks to scrounge the documents up. > > I would expect the principal angle for defense, if Trump chooses to fight it, would be to plead unconstitutionality. For example, he could take the Roe v. Wade defense and say that his tax returns should be private on the basis of the penumbra of privacy enshrined into the Bill of Rights. But I assume that there are any other number of angles he could take, given that he is aware of the request and lives in a country where you can take pretty much anything whatsoever to court and, given that he’s the President, it would be unlikely that the court would decide that the argument was too stupid to allow to proceed to trial. > > Though, whether Trump will fight it or not…who knows? On the one hand, he’s already had the FBI go through all of it and take everything that there possibly is to take to convict him of criminal activities out and note it down. At this point, he’s already boned in every way that really matters. But, Trump probably fears embarrassment more than he fears jail, so the big question will be: **Just how embarrassing are the numbers in his returns? How much debt is he in**? And just who does he owe the money to? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/64 "2019-04-05T16:17:07Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You can also write off the net loss of a business, which can be construed as a debt. Doesn’t get you out of paying the debt, but you can still write it off. A business that loses money isn’t necessarily in debt, but that still would be an embarrassment for Trump. In general, the write-offs or deductions could contradict statements he has said about his “successes.” Other embarrassing things could be: showing he isn’t as rich as he says he is; showing he doesn’t give to charity as much as he says he does; showing income from disreputable sources (like Russian interests, maybe); income that indicates conflicts of interest; income funneled through all his LLCs; foreign taxes he has paid and where; and how much he has personally benefited from the tax law of 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/65 "2019-04-05T16:19:21Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > A business that loses money isn’t necessarily in debt, but that still would be an embarrassment for Trump. In general, the write-offs or deductions could contradict statements he has said about his “successes.” > > Other embarrassing things could be: showing he isn’t as rich as he says he is; showing he doesn’t give to charity as much as he says he does; showing income from disreputable sources (like Russian interests, maybe); income that indicates conflicts of interest; income funneled through all his LLCs; foreign taxes he has paid and where; and how much he has personally benefited from the tax law of 2017. I’ll certainly agree with all you said here. And I would only add that he could write off debt funneled through all his LLCs, too. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/66 "2019-04-05T16:19:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > To be clear - the chairmen of the House Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Finance Committee can request the tax returns of any American, at any time, for any reason? So Chuck Grassley could just say, “I feel like having a peek at Jussie Smollett’s tax returns - fork them over”? > > Hmm. > > As I have mentioned, everyone might want to keep in mind that genies are notoriously hard to get back into bottles. > > Regards, > Shodan Seems disingenuous to worry about this issue when you argued that Merrick Garland being denied a vote because not having a vote counted as “advice and consent” based on strict reading of the text, but now we have a genie in the bottle issue because of strict reading of the text. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/67 "2019-04-05T18:51:56Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Were all the “donations” of the Trump Foundation made public? Where did the “$7 to Boy Scouts” info come from? That is my go-to example of how petty this criminal family is. > [@guizot](#): > > A business that loses money isn’t necessarily in debt, but that still would be an embarrassment for Trump. In general, the write-offs or deductions could contradict statements he has said about his “successes.” > > Other embarrassing things could be: showing he isn’t as rich as he says he is; showing he doesn’t give to charity as much as he says he does; showing income from disreputable sources (like Russian interests, maybe); income that indicates conflicts of interest; income funneled through all his LLCs; foreign taxes he has paid and where; and how much he has personally benefited from the tax law of 2017. A timely article, then: [What might be lurking in Trump’s tax returns](https://theweek.com/articles/833260/what-might-lurking-trumps-tax-returns) > [@](#): > > So what might we find? > > It goes without saying that he acts like a man with something to hide. But what, in the fevered brain of Donald J. Trump, qualifies as something worth hiding? > > As Ryan Lizza wrote in The New Yorker, “Trump’s full tax returns … would reveal how much he donates to charity, what tax rate he pays, whether he pays federal taxes at all, and whether he receives income from foreign sources that could create conflicts of interest. They would shed light on whether his net worth is as high as he claims.” > > Trump is vain and egotistical. He likes to try to wow people with his fortune. And we know he’s gone to extraordinary lengths to inflate — and straight-up lie about — the scale of his wealth. A former Forbes reporter said that, in the 1980s, Trump impersonated an aid on a phone call to claim riches he didn’t have in order to get himself on the Forbes 400 list — the magazine’s annual ranking of the wealthiest Americans. Perhaps Trump doesn’t want to release his tax returns simply because his fortune is actually unimpressive when compared to those of other tycoons. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/68 "2019-04-05T19:49:04Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Looks like the head of the IRS, Charles Rettig, is just “some guy” that was already part of the upper-level IRS apparatus, with no particular connection to Trump and probably no strong job prospect worries. So unless he’s a surprise MAGA-hat, I imagine that the most he’ll do is plead a labor shortage and tell them that it will take a few weeks to scrounge the documents up. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > “In 2010–2011, Rettig was appointed by the IRS to serve as Chairman of the IRS Advisory Council (IRSAC) for the last year of his three-year term.” > Which, actually is not correct. He was on the IRSAC from 2008 to 2011. He was the chairman of the council for the last year. I remain unconvinced that he is just ‘some guy’ from the upper-level IRS apparatus - I doubt an advisory position would put put him on the payroll as an upper-level government bureaucrat. An article from today [Man In Charge Of Releasing Trump’s Taxes Believes Trump Shouldn’t Release Them](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/man-in-charge-of-releasing-trumps-taxes-believes-trump-shouldnt-release-them) is discouraging. > [@](#): > > Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Chuck Rettig let everyone know he believed one thing before he was tapped to head the IRS: Trump should not release his tax returns. > > “Is there any legal impediment to Trump publicly releasing his tax returns? Absolutely not,” Rettig wrote in a February 2016 Forbes column. “Would any experienced tax lawyer representing Trump in an IRS audit advise him to publicly release his tax returns during the audit? Absolutely not.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/69 "2019-04-05T19:55:16Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I remain unconvinced that he is just ‘some guy’ from the upper-level IRS apparatus - I doubt an advisory position would put put him on the payroll as an upper-level government bureaucrat. > > An article from today [Man In Charge Of Releasing Trump’s Taxes Believes Trump Shouldn’t Release Them](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/man-in-charge-of-releasing-trumps-taxes-believes-trump-shouldnt-release-them) is discouraging. Yeah, I saw [this post from **CalMeacham**](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21575685&postcount=31761) this morning, just before I left for work. My quicky-check on the guy seems to have been insufficient. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/70 "2019-04-05T20:13:47Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Not a quote attributed to jasq. SImply somethign he quoted: > > Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Chuck Rettig let everyone know he believed one thing before he was tapped to head the IRS: Trump should not release his tax returns. > > “Is there any legal impediment to Trump publicly releasing his tax returns? Absolutely not,” Rettig wrote in a February 2016 Forbes column. “Would any experienced tax lawyer representing Trump in an IRS audit advise him to publicly release his tax returns during the audit? Absolutely not.” There is certainly a difference between saying a lawyer would advise a client against something (I agree he very likely might do so; lawyers are cautious about such matters) and saying I will not follow a directive to do something. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/71 "2019-04-05T20:22:35Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I predict that _House Ways and Means Committee vs Donald Trump_ will be decided in the Supreme Court by a 5-4 vote. Chief Justice Roberts’ will be the only vote in doubt. > > Any gamblers in the house? 🆒 6-3 or 7-2 against Trump. Roberts is definitely on the majority side here, joined by Kavanaugh and possibly Gorsuch. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/72 "2019-04-05T20:27:13Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > A timely article, then: > > [What might be lurking in Trump’s tax returns](https://theweek.com/articles/833260/what-might-lurking-trumps-tax-returns) Trump’s tax returns may not necessarily reveal his worth, particularly if the money is tied up in hundreds of different smaller LLCs. I think what Democrats want to do is to be able to use his tax returns to start building paper trails. It starts with naming names. Whom does he owe? Who owes him? Who does business with him? What kind of business do they do together? _Where_ are they? How are they employed? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/73 "2019-04-05T20:29:36Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > 6-3 or 7-2 against Trump. Roberts is definitely on the majority side here, joined by Kavanaugh and possibly Gorsuch. I don’t see how SCOTUS could rule against the House. The law clearly says that they can request a tax return, and the law cited is the law that was enacted specifically with the POTUS in mind. I think Trump will get subpoenaed and he’ll probably just tell the House to fuck off. And then things could get interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/74 "2019-04-05T21:16:17Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > A business that loses money isn’t necessarily in debt, but that still would be an embarrassment for Trump. In general, the write-offs or deductions could contradict statements he has said about his “successes.” > > Other embarrassing things could be: showing he isn’t as rich as he says he is; showing he doesn’t give to charity as much as he says he does; showing income from disreputable sources (like Russian interests, maybe); income that indicates conflicts of interest; income funneled through all his LLCs; foreign taxes he has paid and where; and how much he has personally benefited from the tax law of 2017. All of this gives Trump an incentive to try to keep his returns hidden. And we can’t rule out the possibility that the returns will reveal actual tax _fraud_ by Trump. He would know that such a situation would test the infamous Justice Department Guideline (preventing indictment of sitting presidents) like nothing else, so far, has done. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/75 "2019-04-05T21:21:29Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > All of this gives Trump an incentive to try to keep his returns hidden. > > And we can’t rule out the possibility that the returns will reveal\*\* actual tax _fraud_\*\* by Trump. He would know that such a situation would test the infamous Justice Department Guideline (preventing indictment of sitting presidents) like nothing else, so far, has done. Tax fraud crossed my mind as well. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/76 "2019-04-05T21:25:41Z")
This looks like it’s shaping up to be the litmus test. Can Trump and/or those enabling him simply, blatantly violate the law? Is Trump above the law? Stay tuned. (Is “The Law” in this country a farce that no one else should be concerned with, either? Stay tuned.) ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/77 "2019-04-05T21:30:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Tax returns show income, not debt. While that is true for the tax returns of individuals, it is not true for tax returns of entities, such as TRUMP INC or whatever his corporate entities are. Entity tax returns, Form 1120, 1065, etc, generally include balance sheets too, which list assets, liabilities and capital. I think Trump is scared of release because they will show he is not nearly as rich as he claims to be. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/78 "2019-04-05T22:35:14Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > This looks like it’s shaping up to be the litmus test. Can Trump and/or those enabling him simply, blatantly violate the law? Is Trump above the law? Stay tuned. > (Is “The Law” in this country a farce that no one else should be concerned with, either? Stay tuned.) I think that’s exactly what this is. It’s part of an ongoing pattern that dates back to the firing of Comey and continued with McCabe and Sessions. Meanwhile his cabinet picks like Devos and Pruitt engage in naked corruption. He uses Trump Hotel and Mar-a-Lago to put money back into his business. But ignoring a House subpoena would be an escalation because it be the president ignoring separation of powers and federal law. More troubling is how Trump is how the executive branch and its various agencies are beginning to reflect Trump’s personality. Civil service is in very real danger of being replaced by a government of loyalists. He’s hiring loyalists in the Dept of Justice, and even worse, he now seems determined to do the same at the Federal Reserve. This is how authoritarians destroy the economies of the countries they try to take control of. Erdogan destroyed Turkey’s once thriving economy by hiring lackeys who printed money at the snap of Erdogan’s finger. Venezuela started crumbling when Chavez chased out some of the ministers within the national energy sector. Trump really is serious about replacing competent financial minds with cartoonish characters like Stephen Moore and Herman Cain. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/79 "2019-04-05T23:31:38Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > All of this gives Trump an incentive to try to keep his returns hidden. > > And we can’t rule out the possibility that the returns will reveal actual tax _fraud_ by Trump. He would know that such a situation would test the infamous Justice Department Guideline (preventing indictment of sitting presidents) like nothing else, so far, has done. > [@asahi](#): > > Tax fraud crossed my mind as well. Tax fraud is probably the one thing that can be most ruled out. The IRS has been auditing him for the last 20 years or something. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037/80 "2019-04-05T23:48:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Tax fraud is probably the one thing that can be most ruled out. The IRS has been auditing him for the last 20 years or something. Has anyone not affiliated with Trump confirmed this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-taxes-requested/832037.md?page=5)