# Trump, the Clintons, and sexual harrasment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780 "2017-11-16T16:58:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/1 "2017-11-16T16:58:33Z")
One of the ironic results of electing Trump has been a huge backlash against powerful sex predators. Most of the awful behavior of people like Weinstein, Spacey, Rattner, Louis CK, et al were open secrets but no one in the press wanted to bring those people under scrutiny. However, now that has all changed, and the media is filled with stories of powerful people doing awful things. There seems to be have been a tipping point. That tipping point was the election of Trump. Before Trump the most famous sex predator in the US was Bill Clinton. He admitted to having sex with an intern, settled with a low level employee who accused him of sexual harrasment, and was accused of groping and rape. He was able to get away with this through surrounding himself with defenders and enablers. They formed [bimbo eruption squads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsey_Wright), [blamed](http://izquotes.com/quote/217210) [the victims](http://m.newsok.com/article/2583992), blamed [vast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vast_right-wing_conspiracy)conspiracies, invented the [one free grope rule](http://articles.latimes.com/1998/mar/23/news/mn-31918), attacked his [prosecutors](https://partners.nytimes.com/library/politics/030298clinton-starr.html)as bluenoses, and kept Clinton in power. Even when he left office and was out of power he was still sheltered from his behavior because it was Hillary’s turn to be president. Obama delayed that dream for 8 years but in the meantime Clinton continued to be feted and respected. Then Trump came along and his awful treatment of his wives was well known. Then came the allegations of groping and a recording of him joking about grabbing women by their genitals. Hillary tried to attack him about this but her history of enabling Bill undermined her case. Then Trump won the election and there was no reason to believe Hillary would ever be president or run again. There was no more reason to cover for Bill Clinton. Trump has been attacked non-stop since the election and for many exhibit A in their case for him being an awful person was his boorish treatment of women. Since Trump replaced Bill Clinton as the poster boy for sexual harassment there is no need to pretend there is any nuance. You can full-throatedly condemn sexual predators without hurting the Democrats or helping the Republicans. So the story about Clinton’s good friend and fundraiser Weinstein comes out and the floodgates open. It took the election of an awful person like Trump to bring about the change and now the era of winking at sexual predators like Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Chris Dodd, and Harvey Weinstein is over. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/2 "2017-11-16T17:00:35Z")
The real ironic part is that the groper-in-chief gets to stay for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/3 "2017-11-16T17:01:26Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Even when he left office and was out of power he was still sheltered from his behavior because it was Hillary’s turn to be president. My god, can we please stop repeating this crap? _ **Nobody** _ who supported Hillary did so “because it was her turn.” ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/4 "2017-11-16T17:08:09Z")
I’m not sure what your argument is. I learned about the Lewinsky thing too young to understand the inappropriateness of having sex with a subordinate, and I never ever remember rape accusations and the like covered in the media. Knowing what I know about Clinton now, I wouldn’t vote for him ever. If your argument is that Democrats excused his behavior, I’m sure they did. Victim-blaming and excuse-gathering knows no political ideology. But one thing Clinton didn’t do, or at least not that I’ve ever seen in my life, is brag openly on tape about committing sexual assault. If that had happened I doubt many Democrats would have supported him, because it removes plausible deniability. Prior to Trump, I doubt any politician could have gotten away with saying that kind of stuff on tape without it ruining their career. That’s what disgusts me. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/5 "2017-11-16T17:12:26Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > My god, can we please stop repeating this crap? _ **Nobody** _ who supported Hillary did so “because it was her turn.” Some people did - but they were the same people who supported her back in 2008. I thought what Bill Clinton did was horrible, I said so at the time. I think he’s a skeevy creeper. I thought he should be censured, but not impeached (what he did was not a crime, it certainly wasn’t a high crime or misdemeanor. He had a consensual sexual relationship with a subordinate while he was married. Unless you think we should prosecute adultery or make sex with a subordinate criminal. There were other allegations against him - but none were proven or really provable and turning the government into a three ring circus over consenting adults isn’t what I want from a government.) ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/6 "2017-11-16T17:40:55Z")
I think there’s a lot of truth in the OP. Hollywood, which has a reputation for being very liberal, obviously turned a blind eye towards harassment for a long time. The defense of Clinton has always troubled me. That said, the liberal community (admittedly a very large tent) has (for now) come out against harassment, even against their own. The situation with Moore seems to show that hard-line conservatives aren’t there yet. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > But one thing Clinton didn’t do, or at least not that I’ve ever seen in my life, is brag openly on tape about committing sexual assault. If that had happened I doubt many Democrats would have supported him, because it removes plausible deniability. Prior to Trump, I doubt any politician could have gotten away with saying that kind of stuff on tape without it ruining their career. Clinton is definitely more smooth and less crass than Trump. Keep in mind, though, that Bill was a key-note speaker at last year’s DNC and was treated like a rock star. One of the rocks that started the current avalanche was Susan Fowler’s blog post detailing her harassment at Uber. I read an interview with Fowler indicating that Trump’s election was one of the reasons she decided to go public. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/7 "2017-11-16T17:51:29Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m not sure what your argument is. It boils down to the usual. The liberals deserve all the blame and the conservatives deserve all the credit. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/8 "2017-11-16T18:09:31Z")
When did Bill Clinton go after a minor, or force himself on anyone? Did I miss that in Both Sides Do It 101 class? And what does his wife have to do with any of it? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/9 "2017-11-16T18:13:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When did Bill Clinton go after a minor, or force himself on anyone? Did I miss that in Both Sides Do It 101 class? > > And what does his wife have to do with any of it? There certainly are _allegations_ that he forced himself on women. _ **If true** _, that would be serious misconduct. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/10 "2017-11-16T18:15:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When did Bill Clinton go after a minor, or force himself on anyone? Did I miss that in Both Sides Do It 101 class? > > And what does his wife have to do with any of it? [Juanita Broaddrick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick) claims Bill Clinton raped her. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/11 "2017-11-16T18:21:45Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > [Juanita Broaddrick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick) claims Bill Clinton raped her. From the link. > [@](#): > > Rumors circulated about Broaddrick’s allegations for many years, but she refused to speak to the media. In a sworn statement in 1997 with the placeholder name “Jane Doe #5,”[1] Broaddrick filed an affidavit with Paula Jones’ lawyers stating there were unfounded rumors and stories circulating **“that Mr. Clinton had made unwelcome sexual advances toward me in the late seventies… These allegations are untrue”.** > > Nevertheless, speculation that Broaddrick had more to say on the matter persisted. Finally, in an interview with Dateline NBC that aired on February 24, 1999, Broaddrick told her story in public in full for the first time, this time stating **that she had indeed been raped by Clinton.** So, which was the lie and which was the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/12 "2017-11-16T18:28:06Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > From the link. > > So, which was the lie and which was the truth? That certainly hurts her credibility. But . . . today’s accusers also have, in some cases, past histories of denying their abuse ever happened, and the general reaction seems to be that such denial is understandable given the disparity in power, the consequences of speaking out, and the like. Is that also applicable here? Because I think I’d like to see agreement on a consistent standard of evaluating claims, more than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/13 "2017-11-16T18:30:18Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > My god, can we please stop repeating this crap? _ **Nobody** _ who supported Hillary did so “because it was her turn.” _Way_ back yonder, I saw a car with a bumper sticker that said, “It’s Hillary’s Turn”. So, whatever. Maybe one person. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/14 "2017-11-16T18:32:29Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > There certainly are _allegations_ Of a lot of things, aren’t there? Which ones have checked out? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/15 "2017-11-16T18:47:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That certainly hurts her credibility. > > But . . . today’s accusers also have, in some cases, past histories of denying their abuse ever happened, and the general reaction seems to be that such denial is understandable given the disparity in power, the consequences of speaking out, and the like. > > Is that also applicable here? > > Because I think I’d like to see agreement on a consistent standard of evaluating claims, more than anything else. Clinton’s other two accusers, at the time, told friends it was consensual. I don’t remember if Ms. Broaddrick had any such back-up but she did swear, under oath, it didn’t happen. The accusers against Moore told friends and family at the time it happened. Plus the yearbook and Moore being on the mall’s creep list. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/16 "2017-11-16T18:48:03Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > From the link. > > So, which was the lie and which was the truth? I don’t know. There were other accusations and some credibility problems with each of the accusers. But at the time there were plenty of people, men and women alike, who were willing to discount the accusations on their face, something that is not happening so readily right now. It’s certainly fair to reconsider how these claims would be considered by the public if the situation was happening now. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/17 "2017-11-16T19:02:31Z")
I thought it was the Harvey Weinstein scandal that really opened the floodgates, not Trump winning the election? Were there any prominent sexual harassment scandals/accusations between last year’s election and the Weinstein scandal breaking in early October? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/18 "2017-11-16T19:09:25Z")
p.s. As a matter of fact, my recollection is that after the election, a common sentiment was “I can do anything now because Trump did all those racist/sexist things and still became President.” Those who accused Trump were attacked and ridiculed. The public sentiment was not conducive to additional sexual harassment accusations. But Weinstein’s accusers were taken seriously, and he suffered the consequences. _That_, IMO, is what encouraged all these women to go public with their accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/19 "2017-11-16T19:22:30Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Clinton’s other two accusers, at the time, told friends it was consensual. There’s little doubt that the Gennifer Flowers and Monica Lewinsky relationships were consensual (setting aside issue like power imbalances vitiating consent). I’m not familiar with this claim with respect to Kathleen Willey. When did it happen that she told friends it was consensual? I’m not familiar with this claim with respect to Paula Jones. When did it happen that she told friends it was consensual? Finally, Broaderick made contemporaneous statements to three friends (Susan Lewis, Louis Ma, Jean Darden) claiming she was raped. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780/20 "2017-11-16T19:24:10Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > My god, can we please stop repeating this crap? _ **Nobody** _ who supported Hillary did so “because it was her turn.” [http://lmgtfy.com/?q=its+her+turn](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=its+her+turn) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-clintons-and-sexual-harrasment/801780.md?page=2)