# Trump & the WaPo (& various leakers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744 "2017-05-16T13:39:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/41 "2017-05-16T18:15:05Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > How would the Unknown Ally ever find out? > > It might be that they would eventually find out that the Russians know about it. But it seems highly unlikely that they would know that the Russians found out via Trump’s blabbing. Which is the key issue here. They’d figure it out when Russian bombs dropped on them. Russia has had a tendency to bomb some of the people fighting ISIS. If this source happens to be one of those groups, and they get made dead because of [del]Supreme Leader Snoke[/del] President Trump’s big mouth, how likely are other groups going to be to help out the US? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/42 "2017-05-16T18:23:47Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > If this had been done by President Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton or John McCain, I’d have been unperturbed. They are all experienced with intelligence matters and confidentiality. The Russia/US press thing would have been weird, but I’d generally assume that they knew what they were doing. > > If it was Mitt Romney, it could very well have been a mistake but a certain learning curve must be expected. Romney is not stupid, and one assumes that if he were president, he would want to learn. [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html?_r=0) > [@](#): > > Former officials said it was not uncommon for presidents to unintentionally say too much in meetings and said that in administrations from both parties, staff members typically established bright lines for their bosses to avoid crossing before such meetings. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/43 "2017-05-16T18:24:13Z")
New reports say that the source of the intelligence was Israel. If that is indeed the case, as an Israeli, I’d like to thank the Washington Post for giving my country a heads up. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/44 "2017-05-16T18:27:07Z")
An excellent article in the Atlantic, written by the director of the Strategic Studies Program at the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies: [**The Terrible Cost of Trump’s Disclosures**](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/the-terrible-cost-of-trumps-disclosures/526818/) _The consequences of the president’s reported divulgence of top-secret codeword information to the Russians are only beginning._ He also has something to say about the statements of Tillerson, Powell, and McMaster. He calls them “not quite lies, but they are the kind of parsed half truths that are as bad, and in some cases worse.” This is the most clear and helpful article I’ve seen. Definitely worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/45 "2017-05-16T18:45:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > New reports say that the source of the intelligence was Israel. If that is indeed the case, as an Israeli, I’d like to thank the Washington Post for giving my country a heads up. Right. What’s good for Israel isn’t necessarily what’s good for the US, and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/46 "2017-05-16T19:19:58Z")
I do understand where you are coming from, Fotheringay-Phipps, but I simply cannot agree that the “greatest damage” is the diplomatic damage nor can I accept that the only way Israeli intelligence could find out about this fuckup is through a WaPo article. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/47 "2017-05-16T19:31:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, because what is the worth of the word of a 3 star general with a reputation for scrupulous honesty, plus that of the Secretary of State and National Security Advisor, compared to that of an anonymous leaker? Multiple, independently confirmed anonymous leakers. The Washington Post’s rules for leaked information and confirmation and very well known. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/48 "2017-05-16T19:37:37Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > They need to balance competing interests. IMO, if there’s really serious harm to the nation’s security from publicizing these things, then they should not publicize it. > > More like, you went out of town for a long trip and forgot to lock your doors. Someone finds out about it and goes about publicizing in all available venues: “ **TERRIBLE SECURITY BREACH!!! AIRBECK IS OUT OF TOWN FOR A LONG WHILE AND DID NOT LOCK HIS DOORS!!! THIS COULD LEAD TO THIEVES ENTERING HIS HOUSE AND STEALING ALL HIS POSSESSIONS!!!** ” > > Very important to do this. Otherwise things like this would happen all the time. Better to publicize it. A better analogy would be that I asked you to check on my plants, and told you where I hid my spare key. Then you go to the local bar, and blab to everyone around where I keep my spare key. One of the people at the bar then posts on facebook “Frotheringay just blabbed about where someone told him a spare key was.” This alerts me to the fact that my key has been compromised, without actually compromising it further, and makes me aware that I can no longer trust you in the future. The only person it hurts is you, and your credibility. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Right. What’s good for Israel isn’t necessarily what’s good for the US, and vice versa. Good point, and trump has made that obvious, which is why they will no longer be sharing intel with us. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/49 "2017-05-16T19:40:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I do not know if this is a rule or just a mutual understanding between governments: > > So, it would seem, it is at the least serious breach of etiquette towards an ally. Not even that. This is a breach of trust, yes. But not because an ally expects that the US will ask its consent to share. The expectation is that the US will treat sensitive information sensitively. That is, the breach is not a failure to ask for explicit consent. It’s the failure to treat the information as a valuable asset and disclose it after careful consideration. There is no etiquette rule that says, “Ask us before you pass this on.” But there is one that says, “Use this carefully, protect it,” and Trump’s conduct appears to have violated this. in meme-speak: when Grandma cashes in a savings bond to give you a graduation check, and you use it for hookers and blow. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/50 "2017-05-16T19:41:02Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It might follow from that fact that the Russians will eventually figure out whatever secret it is. OK. It does not follow from that fact that the country which originally provided this information will be able to trace the disclosure back to the US and Trump. Are you suggesting that the Trump administration should have kept the disclosure a secret? Would this not endanger the intelligence operation by the country that provided this information? Shouldn’t the US at least try to contain the damage by informing the allies that the Russians now have this information? Also, if I remember correctly, a Tass reporter was in the room, _with a video camera_. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/51 "2017-05-16T19:48:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There is no etiquette rule that says, “Ask us before you pass this on.” Multiple news reports I’ve heard stated that this is in fact the etiquette. Whoever comes up with the intelligence gets to dictate whom it can be shared with. If the US shares its intelligence with the UK, the UK doesn’t get to pass it on to any country it wants, it’s supposed to get approval from the US first. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/52 "2017-05-16T20:08:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not even that. > > This is a breach of trust, yes. But not because an ally expects that the US will ask its consent to share. > > . That seems in opposition to all reporting and this isn’t the first time I have heard of this long standing etiquette. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/53 "2017-05-16T20:28:23Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > Don’t forget that the American Press Corps was kept out of this meeting, but that the Russian press Corps Tass, was invited to this meeting. They could have published this information. Putin has to be loving this, they really pulled one over on us - they tricked their way into the Oval Office, with their top spy and a photographer in tow, published a lot of chummy looking photos and then used their spycraft skills to worm some classified info out of Old Dickory. Right in the middle of the Comey firing scandal, to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/54 "2017-05-16T21:10:56Z")
Once again, Trump is sitting in front of a burning house demanding to know who had the temerity to call the fire department. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/55 "2017-05-16T21:23:20Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Putin has to be loving this, they really pulled one over on us - they tricked their way into the Oval Office, with their top spy and a photographer in tow, published a lot of chummy looking photos and then used their spycraft skills to worm some classified info out of Old Dickory. Right in the middle of the Comey firing scandal, to boot. This didn’t require a “trick” or “spycraft skills.” This required a guy with a camera saying “photo op. It’ll be in all the Russian papers. It’ll be huge.” followed by a compliment on the new Oval Office curtains. The man is not a vault. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/56 "2017-05-16T21:30:08Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Multiple news reports I’ve heard stated that this is in fact the etiquette. Whoever comes up with the intelligence gets to dictate whom it can be shared with. If the US shares its intelligence with the UK, the UK doesn’t get to pass it on to any country it wants, it’s supposed to get approval from the US first. Then cite it, please. A specific claim, not a vague set of sentences that use etiquette in one sentence and then invite the reader to infer the etiquette. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/57 "2017-05-16T21:45:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Then cite it, please. A specific claim, not a vague set of sentences that use etiquette in one sentence and then invite the reader to infer the etiquette. There’s this: > [@](#): > > Mr. Trump’s disclosure does not appear to have been illegal — the president has the power to declassify almost anything. But sharing the information without the express permission of the ally who provided it was a major breach of espionage etiquette, and could jeopardize a crucial intelligence-sharing relationship. > > In fact, the ally has repeatedly warned American officials that it would cut off access to such sensitive information if it were shared too widely, the former official said. > > SOURCE: [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/trump-russia-classified-information-isis.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/trump-russia-classified-information-isis.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/58 "2017-05-16T21:54:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Then cite it, please. A specific claim, not a vague set of sentences that use etiquette in one sentence and then invite the reader to infer the etiquette. OK, found one from the [New York Timese](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/trump-russia-classified-information-isis.html): > [@](#): > > But sharing the information without the express permission of the ally who provided it was a **major breach of espionage etiquette** , and could jeopardize a crucial intelligence-sharing relationship. (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/59 "2017-05-16T22:11:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Then cite it, please. A specific claim, not a vague set of sentences that use etiquette in one sentence and then invite the reader to infer the etiquette. [The officials](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/05/16/trump_gave_russians_israeli_intelligence_report_says.html), who were not authorized to discuss the matter and spoke on the condition of anonymity, said that Israel previously had urged the United States to be careful about the handling of the intelligence that Mr. Trump discussed. and [Israeli officials](https://www.buzzfeed.com/sheerafrenkel/israeli-official-trump-sharing-intelligence-with-russia-is?utm_term=.bk1QbX5GKw#.urXG3w9vAW), however, said it was “highly unusual” and “highly inappropriate” to share information without prior coordination. and [A second intelligence officer](https://www.buzzfeed.com/sheerafrenkel/israeli-official-trump-sharing-intelligence-with-russia-is?utm_term=.bk1QbX5GKw#.urXG3w9vAW), who spoke to BuzzFeed News via encrypted app and also spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed that Israel had shared specific intelligence with the US regarding an active threat to US-bound planes. Speaking to BuzzFeed News via a military base in northern Israel, he said Israeli intelligence officers were “boiling mad and demanding answers” as to whether Israel’s military would continue its current intelligence-sharing agreement with the US. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744/60 "2017-05-16T22:14:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Then cite it, please. A specific claim, not a vague set of sentences that use etiquette in one sentence and then invite the reader to infer the etiquette. More from that article: ["There is a](https://www.buzzfeed.com/sheerafrenkel/israeli-official-trump-sharing-intelligence-with-russia-is?utm_term=.bk1QbX5GKw#.urXG3w9vAW)special understanding of security cooperation between our countries," he said. “To know that this intelligence is shared with others, without our prior knowledge? That is, for us, our worst fears confirmed.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-the-wapo-various-leakers/786744.md?page=4)