# Trump trying to end birthright citizenship **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 30, 2018, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712 "2018-10-30T11:47:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/41 "2018-10-30T17:43:49Z")
This has Steven Miller’s fingerprints all over it. It’s no coincidence this is being announced on the day that the synagogue shootings will be back in the news, and it’s one week until the midterms. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/42 "2018-10-30T17:54:01Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Because it means you are “rewarding” law breakers. It’s one of the core conservative ideas–that family units are UNITS. Rewarding parents by making their kids citizens encourages them to come here. It’s the same thinking that argues that say, if you were the innocent party in a divorce then you shouldn’t have to pay child support because it’s not fair that “she” cheated and now “she” gets the money–there’s no gap between parents and kids in some people’s minds. It’s also that, once your kid is American, deporting the parents is more difficult and it gives them, in practice if not in the law, a simpler way to green-cardness or citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/43 "2018-10-30T17:56:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes and no. From the wikipedia article: > > It appears that the phrasing was meant to mean “in contrast to someone subject to the jurisdiction of a foreign power”, and a distinction might be made between someone who is born to a foreign diplomat here vs someone simply here illegally (or legally here, but not a diplomat). AFAIK, there is no doctrine to establish the idea that non-diplomats are “untouchable by US law”. Someone who is a tourist here and who commits a crime is subject to US law. True, but SCOTUS precdent does seem to allow or ending birthright citizenship to people’s kids who are just visitors or others on temporary visas. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/44 "2018-10-30T17:58:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Nice to see Republicans embracing changing the Constitution by executive order. I’m sure they will be consistent when President Kamala Harris alters the second amendment. “Republicans” are hopefully not embracing this idea. So far, it’s Trump and his low education supporters. But yes, anyone with a brain knows where this will lead, so Republicans should not create a new power that a Democrat can use. Limited government ALWAYS works for Republicans, even if they think it doesn’t in certain cases. It’s only Democrats who benefit from weakening rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/45 "2018-10-30T18:07:52Z")
Republicans don’t have to embrace the idea when they can just stand aside and let it happen, while publicly denouncing the idea. Win-Win. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/46 "2018-10-30T18:14:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > “Republicans” are hopefully not embracing this idea. So far, it’s Trump and his low education supporters. > > But yes, anyone with a brain knows where this will lead, so Republicans should not create a new power that a Democrat can use. Limited government ALWAYS works for Republicans, even if they think it doesn’t in certain cases. It’s only Democrats who benefit from weakening rule of law. He’s the leader of the Republican party, and [the others are, as usual, falling in line](https://nypost.com/2018/10/30/lindsay-graham-backs-trumps-plan-to-end-birthright-citizenship/). Like it or not, this is the Republican policy now. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/47 "2018-10-30T18:15:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > “Republicans” are hopefully not embracing this idea. So far, it’s Trump and his low education supporters. > > But yes, anyone with a brain knows where this will lead, so Republicans should not create a new power that a Democrat can use. Limited government ALWAYS works for Republicans, even if they think it doesn’t in certain cases. It’s only Democrats who benefit from weakening rule of law. Best not light too many matches around that kind of argument…notoriously flammable. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/48 "2018-10-30T18:15:42Z")
Lindsey Graham has gone absolutely nuts. Was John McCain his brain or something and now Trump is? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/49 "2018-10-30T18:16:42Z")
Lilac water is a hell of a drug. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/50 "2018-10-30T18:20:15Z")
Paul Ryan says you can’t end birthright citizenship by EO. Go Paul! > **[Paul Ryan: ‘You Cannot End Birthright Citizenship With An Executive Order’](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ryan-you-cannot-end-birthright-citizenship-with-executive-order)** > > House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) drew a line in the sand Tuesday, asserting definitively that, despite President Donald Trump's belief, "you cannot end birthright citizenship with an executive order." ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/51 "2018-10-30T18:27:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Paul Ryan says you can’t end birthright citizenship by EO. Go Paul! Sure, that’s nice, but between Paul Ryan, Donald Trump, and Lindsey Graham, who is going to be in office in January 2019 and whose political career is over? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/52 "2018-10-30T18:31:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Paul Ryan says you can’t end birthright citizenship by EO. Go Paul! > > [Paul Ryan: ‘You Cannot End Birthright Citizenship With An Executive Order’ - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ryan-you-cannot-end-birthright-citizenship-with-executive-order) Yep-_This’ll_ be the time he stands firm against the Prez when push comes to shove! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/53 "2018-10-30T18:31:44Z")
Why’d you have to remind me that Paul’s going away? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/54 "2018-10-30T18:34:42Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > It’s also that, once your kid is American, deporting the parents is more difficult and it gives them, in practice if not in the law, a simpler way to green-cardness or citizenship. That’s really where I was going; it’s not so much the citizenship of the children that is the issue, but the effects on the rest of the family that aren’t necessarily everything we might wish for. To use an extreme hypothetical, let’s say a pregnant married couple manages to get here (into our airspace, or whatever) from another country while she’s in labor and has the baby a minute after crossing the border. The difference of a minute would make the difference between that kid being an American vs. from somewhere else. Why? Had the airplane gone a hair slower, the kid wouldn’t be a citizen. It’s the result of a totally random series of events. Should that give those parents and siblings a leg up on getting permanent residency status versus any other immigrants, legal or otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/55 "2018-10-30T18:44:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Why’d you have to remind me that Paul’s going away? Because it’s a _good_ thing. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/56 "2018-10-30T18:56:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m not so sure that most Americans would cite birthright citizenship as part of America’s greatness. It’s a legal issue that most Americans probably don’t even know about. What do you think most Americans know about whether they are citizens? You know, by birth? Are there American citizens who assume they aren’t citizens yet because they never went through naturalization? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/57 "2018-10-30T18:57:51Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s really where I was going; it’s not so much the citizenship of the children that is the issue, but the effects on the rest of the family that aren’t necessarily everything we might wish for. > > To use an extreme hypothetical, let’s say a pregnant married couple manages to get here (into our airspace, or whatever) from another country while she’s in labor and has the baby a minute after crossing the border. > > The difference of a minute would make the difference between that kid being an American vs. from somewhere else. Why? Had the airplane gone a hair slower, the kid wouldn’t be a citizen. It’s the result of a totally random series of events. > > Should that give those parents and siblings a leg up on getting permanent residency status versus any other immigrants, legal or otherwise? O.K. with your idea of making the minimum time here two minutes. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/58 "2018-10-30T19:01:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But I think a majority of Americans feel it is one of our core values. > > Trump is wrong, as usual, about the US being the only country with birthright citizenship, but it’s not at all unusual for countries to not have it. And Trump has been calling for a change for some time now. Maybe this is the first time he’s claimed he can change it himself, but I doubt he’ll try. More likely, this is pre-election rhetoric to gin up the base. Trump doesn’t consider himself to be the president of all Americans-- only those who support him. I agree with all of this. The entire idea is antithetical to our constitutional foundations and sense of ourselves as a country. Trump, the child of immigrants, is bluffing. He has no idea what he would replace “birthright citizenship” with. He’s just copying one of Mitt Romney’s more bizarre proposals of several years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/59 "2018-10-30T19:26:58Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s really where I was going; it’s not so much the citizenship of the children that is the issue, but the effects on the rest of the family that aren’t necessarily everything we might wish for. > > To use an extreme hypothetical, let’s say a pregnant married couple manages to get here (into our airspace, or whatever) from another country while she’s in labor and has the baby a minute after crossing the border. > > The difference of a minute would make the difference between that kid being an American vs. from somewhere else. Why? Had the airplane gone a hair slower, the kid wouldn’t be a citizen. It’s the result of a totally random series of events. > > Should that give those parents and siblings a leg up on getting permanent residency status versus any other immigrants, legal or otherwise? First, can you substantiate the claim that the parents and siblings do get a leg up on permanent residency status? Second, consider the effects on the family in the _absence_ of birthright citizenship. You’d have people, born in the US and knowing no other, who aren’t citizens of the country they are residing in. They may or may not have citizenship in another country, and certainly no experience or connection there. We have examples of groups of stateless people, such as [Biharis in Bangladesh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranded_Pakistanis_in_Bangladesh#Refugee_crisis), who represent a permanent underclass because their descendants are also stateless non-citizens. Should we not seek to prevent the formation of such a permanent underclass? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712/60 "2018-10-30T19:38:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > O.K. with your idea of making the minimum time here two minutes. I was just trying to point out that birthright citizenship can basically be an accident of birth. I’m kind of uncomfortable with the idea that citizenship is something you can luck into like that- most European countries, for example, require that you be the child of a citizen to be a citizen. Citizenship is something valuable- it’s not something we give away to anyone who shows up, except in this one case. That’s why I said “tighten up” the idea of birthright citizenship, not abolish it. Like for example, maybe restrict it to citizens and green card holders or applicants (petitioners?). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-end-birthright-citizenship/823712.md?page=4)