# Trump trying to rush approval for firing squads for federal executions **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 28, 2020, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626 "2020-11-28T00:06:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/21 "2020-11-28T23:16:28Z")
REcent thread on lethal injection in GQ, where that point came up: > [@Lethal injection without lethal injection drugs?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-without-lethal-injection-drugs/926105/7): > > Here’s a WaPost article about the fights between FDA, Department of Justice and Texas, on the issue of using and obtaining drugs for execution. I’m afraid it’s pay-walled. Short version is that there is a 2012 injunction which bars the FDA from allowing the import of sodium thiopental, so they wouldn’t allow Texas to import the drug. However, AG Sessions argued that drugs for death penalty purposes are not within the FDA’s mandate, which a DOJ opinion in 2019 confirmed. The article (from … > **[Justice Department says FDA ‘lacks jurisdiction’ over death-penalty drugs](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/justice-department-says-fda-lacks-jurisdiction-over-death-penalty-drugs/2019/05/14/da056e6c-764d-11e9-b7ae-390de4259661_story.html)** > > The opinion sides with Texas, which the agency blocked from importing an overseas drug needed in executions. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/22 "2020-11-28T23:19:39Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Suffocation is cruel and unusual; Not according to the Supreme Court in the _Glossip_ decision. > **[Ohio’s Governor Stopped an Execution Over Fears It Would Feel Like Waterboarding](https://theintercept.com/2019/02/07/death-penalty-lethal-injection-midazolam-ohio/)** > > Ohio’s governor stopped an execution over fears that lethal injection using midazolam causes pain and suffering akin to waterboarding. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/23 "2020-11-28T23:23:00Z")
And a previous thread last year on the point **Hari Seldon** raises. Devolved into a train wreck and got closed, but some useful info there. > [@Death Penalty options](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423): > > Recently, I had to have a kitten euthanized. I stayed with him as the vet gave him the injection. He passed away peacefully, with no apparent pain, no spasms. His heart just stopped, and he was gone. Now, I’ve heard that the lethal injections that are administered to criminals on death row can have lots of complications. One of the criticisms is that their death is often painful, sometimes accompanied with spasms. Why isn’t the same chemical that is used to euthanized animals used to execu… ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/24 "2020-11-29T00:15:47Z")
I cannot lie - I had to laugh at **Colibri** ’s final (and yes - closing 🙂) comment in that thread. I wonder what 100,000 mics of LSD would do. 🤓 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/25 "2020-11-29T01:08:28Z")
ever been a botched firing squad execution? There have been with drugs and hangings although they eventually killed the guy in the end. . ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/26 "2020-11-29T04:43:28Z")
I’ve always been partial to the guillotine myself. Really. Fast, efficient. I doubt you could both it if you tried. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/27 "2020-11-29T13:39:18Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I doubt you could both it if you tried. Assuming “both” is really “botch”. Any machine can malfunction on any given use. Even a very simple one. And by definition, it worked the last time you tested it before it malfunctioned. But I agree that overall if we want an impressive and grisly form of State-sanctioned vengeance, this one is probably the most goof-proof, both against human error at the moment, or machine malfunction when needed. And unlike some other methods, there’s very little way any plausible problem can create a hazard to the executioner, witnesses, etc. Not so with firearms, poison gas, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/28 "2020-11-29T14:04:24Z")
I would expect that someone facing a firing squad would feel pain, since the need of a squad means they aren’t specifically and accurately firing at some special place where the person is dead before they feel it. I’m also not sure any method is actually instantaneous, and so any method that would cause pain if you survived should, in my opinion, be ruled out as a valid method. I also 100% understand why they would need to have tests on humans for lethal drugs. It’s just normal that what works in other animals may not work in humans. It’s why we have human trials after animal trials for other medical situations. Granted, you can’t actually kill humans in a study, but you very much could test for removing consciousness and inability to feel pain. You can test to make sure the drugs don’t interact, with one negating the other. And maybe you can actually kill, if it’s in a euthanasia setting. Give the data, and offer incentives for the patient to be able to give to the family. And then monitor brain waves to prove pain doesn’t happen. There are ways to have tests in humans, if we really want to. There’s no reason to go back to methods that are more likely to cause pain. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/29 "2020-11-29T14:37:49Z")
Focusing on physical pain is IMO a bit of a red herring here. There’s no shortage of mental pain during the whole lead up to the final ceremony. IMO It’s sort of a 17th or 18th Century morality that focusses on the physical while ignoring the mental. Go back much earlier than that and worrying about the physical pain of the executed seems a ludicrous bit of misplaced sentimentality. Here in the 21st Century we ought to be able to do better. OTOH … In my line of work a rueful refrain about fatal accidents is “oh well, it won’t hurt for long.” ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/30 "2020-11-29T16:34:31Z")
It’s not suffocation - it’s asphyxiation, and is probably the most humane, foolproof method of execution. It’s the generally accepted method for self-euthanasia. With helium, nitrogen, and other inert gases there is no sense of suffocation. That feeling is a result of CO2 blood levels rising, not from a lack of oxygen. With these gases, you can be out in 5-10 seconds with a deep breath and be dead in 5-12 min. You’ll never feel a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/31 "2020-11-29T17:55:01Z")
outside the US only India and Japan are big democratic countries that still use the DP. Almost all the rest are communist and/or dictatorships. Great company we keep - N. Korea, Russia, Iran, etc ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/32 "2020-11-29T18:18:15Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > It’s not suffocation - it’s asphyxiation, and is probably the most humane, foolproof method of execution. Which is why it isn’t preferred by the angry masses and the politicians that cater to them. The death penalty isn’t a solution to the problem of crime-it is there to offer second-hand vengeance. If it doesn’t offer satisfaction to those who insist that violent suffering must begat violent suffering, then it just won’t fly. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/33 "2020-11-29T20:30:21Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Assuming “both” is really “botch”. Yes, “botched” was meant. Hard to botch the guillotine. I mean, the blade’s not suddenly going to stop halfway through your neck. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/34 "2020-11-29T20:37:05Z")
guillotine was used as recently as 1977 in France they abolished the DP in 1981 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/35 "2020-11-29T20:47:04Z")
I knew this fact thanks to a humorous moment at a quiz night in a British pub in Bangkok. The emcee asked, “What was last used in France in 1977?” And someone shouted out, “Soap!” ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/36 "2020-11-30T06:26:15Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Focusing on physical pain is IMO a bit of a red herring here. There’s no shortage of mental pain during the whole lead up to the final ceremony. The USSR solution to that was to simply inform the condemned that their appeals had been lost and then shoot them in the back of the head immediately. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/37 "2020-11-30T06:45:31Z")
wiki: _"Although most nations have abolished capital punishment, over 60% of the world’s population live in countries where the death penalty is retained, such as China, India , the United States , Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria , Ethiopia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran , and among almost all Islamic countries,_ " Also Singapore So you are saying Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Singapore & Egypt, are communist and/or dictatorships? This will come as a great surprise to those nations. Mind you, I am not a big proponent of the DP and see no reason to rush the process. But if you want to use international comparisons, get your facts straight. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/38 "2020-11-30T08:41:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So you are saying Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Singapore & Egypt, are communist and/or dictatorships? > > This will come as a great surprise to those nations. If Egypt isn’t strictly a dictatorship, it seems to share most of the major hallmarks of one: little or no freedom of the press; strictly enforced laws against disrespecting the official religion; arbitrary detention, torture, and even execution of political dissidents; rampant corruption of the political elite… ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/39 "2020-11-30T12:49:43Z")
@DrDeth: Good point. For round numbers just the big 3 China, India, and the USA represent 40% of the world population. So about 2/3rds of all people living in death penalty countries are covered right there. After that we start down into the long tail of smaller countries. I suppose a better way to say what @Bijou_Drains may have meant is that the US is the sole DP country claiming to be a “Western liberal democracy” and while a few of the others totally are or at least aspire to being a “democracy”, there’s an authoritarian streak in how many (most?) of them are actually governed. As @psychonaut points out about Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626/40 "2020-11-30T12:53:14Z")
Is this man’s horror show ever going to end?! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-trying-to-rush-approval-for-firing-squads-for-federal-executions/926626.md?page=3)