# Trump U. : "This is straight-up fraud" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 2, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317 "2016-06-02T15:34:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/1 "2016-06-02T15:34:50Z")
As the ugly but hardly unexpected details spill about “Trump University” and its $40 million in largely useless seminars, with TD’s deep involvement, NY attorney general Eric Schneiderman has called it [“straight-up fraud.”](http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/02/politics/eric-schneiderman-attorney-general-trump-university-fraud/) There is no evidence that any real value was ever intended in return for the enormous fees, and less evidence that anything of value was ever given. So: compare and contrast deliberate, blatant fraud of gullible individuals swayed by Trump’s largely self-defined reputation with… oh, say, rogue use of an unsanctioned email server. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/2 "2016-06-02T15:40:48Z")
I hope The Donald isn’t too stupid to make license plates. There are some things you just can’t bribe your way out of. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/3 "2016-06-02T15:53:40Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > I hope The Donald isn’t too stupid to make license plates. There are some things you just can’t bribe your way out of. AFAIK, the proceeding is a civil lawsuit, not a criminal trial. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/4 "2016-06-02T16:02:12Z")
I made a post about this over in the Donald’s election thread. You know that video he released, supposedly with three supporters praising his “University”? Turns out it’s a scam, too. Link to my other post- [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19374072&postcount=781](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19374072&postcount=781) Link to the Red State article about the scam video - [http://www.redstate.com/leon\_h\_wolf/2016/06/01/trump-campaign-releases-video-defending-trump-university](http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/06/01/trump-campaign-releases-video-defending-trump-university)…-scam/ > [@Red State Article's conclusion](#): > > So the Trump campaign has released a video with purported testimonials from Trump University students which I guess is supposed to show that Trump University was not a scam. This video features three people – none of whom have ever bought or sold real estate for a living. One of them appears to be a professional testimonial-giver for seminars, one appears to give these kinds of seminars for himself, and one of them has an ongoing business and personal relationship with the Trump family, who have allowed him to sell his protein water on a number of their properties. > > \ > > These are the three people the found, out of the 40,000 people who (allegedly) came through Trump University who could talk about their great experiences. > > Notably, not one of these people is currently in the business of buying or selling real estate, or can offer any proof that Trump University made them successful in this endeavor, which is what it was designed to do. Donald Trump is a con man. I hope the NY Attorney General is preparing to charge him. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/5 "2016-06-02T16:07:34Z")
Jesus, Trump is like the dude in the Halloween movies. Nothing kills him. To be exposed as the perpetrator of utter and complete fraud should kill any candidate. But then should have ragging on a POW, calling Mexicans rapists, making fun of a disabled reporter, accusing a reporter of being on her period, wanting to stop Muslims from entering the US, etc. ad infinitum. His supporters don’t give a flying fuck about any of this any more than they care about facts. He’s totally got them mesmerized and incapable of telling right from wrong. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/6 "2016-06-02T16:17:35Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I made a post about this over in the Donald’s election thread. You know that video he released, supposedly with three supporters praising his “University”? Turns out it’s a scam, too. > > Link to my other post- > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19374072&postcount=781](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19374072&postcount=781) > > Link to the Red State article about the scam video - > [http://www.redstate.com/leon\_h\_wolf/2016/06/01/trump-campaign-releases-video-defending-trump-university](http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/06/01/trump-campaign-releases-video-defending-trump-university)…-scam/ Btw, you said in the other thread “Red State, of all places…” but from what I’ve seen they’ve been strongly #NeverTrump over there throughout the primaries. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/7 "2016-06-02T16:25:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Jesus, Trump is like the dude in the Halloween movies. Nothing kills him. To be exposed as the perpetrator of utter and complete fraud should kill any candidate. But then should have ragging on a POW, calling Mexicans rapists, making fun of a disabled reporter, accusing a reporter of being on her period, wanting to stop Muslims from entering the US, etc. ad infinitum. His supporters don’t give a flying fuck about any of this any more than they care about facts. He’s totally got them mesmerized and incapable of telling right from wrong. Elendel’s Heir posted [this link in another thread,](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/the-seven-broken-guardrails-of-democracy/484829/) but it really helps explain why this fraud continues to thrive even with all the evidence he’s completely unfit for the presidency. These points stand out to me: > [@](#): > > What would have been unacceptable behavior in a more homogenous national community becomes tolerable when a formerly ascendant group sees itself at risk from aggressive new claims by new competitors. Trump is running not to be president of all Americans, but to be the clan leader of white Americans. Those white Americans who respond to his message hear his abusive comments, not as evidence of his unfitness for office, but as proof of his commitment to their tribe. and > [@](#): > > As conservatism’s positive program has fallen ever more badly out of date, as it has delivered ever fewer benefits to its supporters and constituents, those supporters have increasingly defined their conservatism not by their beliefs, but by their adversaries. And those adversaries Donald Trump has made abundantly his own. The people voting for Trump don’t give a shit about some university they never attended, could never afford or even heard of until this week. They are just sick of being victimized by Muslims, feminists, Mexicans, immigrants in general, liberal media, gays and pussy-ass Republicans who can’t win against the anti-Christ Moslem socialist colored guy who hates America. And now DT is standing up for them with a vengeance. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/8 "2016-06-02T16:29:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Jesus, Trump is like the dude in the Halloween movies. Nothing kills him. To be exposed as the perpetrator of utter and complete fraud should kill any candidate. But then should have ragging on a POW, calling Mexicans rapists, making fun of a disabled reporter, accusing a reporter of being on her period, wanting to stop Muslims from entering the US, etc. ad infinitum. His supporters don’t give a flying fuck about any of this any more than they care about facts. He’s totally got them mesmerized and incapable of telling right from wrong. At least half the problem at this point is that it’s not just his idiot fans. The Republican establishment (which should have shut him down at the start) are still telling themselves that hey - he’s still better than Obama and Hillary. That the Republicans are all rushing to support him just betrays their moral bankruptcy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/9 "2016-06-02T16:31:45Z")
Still, I find it hard to have much sympathy for someone gullible enough to pay for courses at “Trump University”. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/10 "2016-06-02T16:42:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Still, I find it hard to have much sympathy for someone gullible enough to pay for courses at “Trump University”. That’s a bit harsh. You’re stuck in a low paying, dead end job and this fabulously rich guy offers you in on his secrets and you can be just like him. A lot of people figured that was their chance up the ladder. Doesn’t make them stupid or deserving of being defrauded, just desperate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/11 "2016-06-02T16:45:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Still, I find it hard to have much sympathy for someone gullible enough to pay for courses at “Trump University”. I have the same attitude about those who vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/12 "2016-06-02T16:56:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Still, I find it hard to have much sympathy for someone gullible enough to pay for courses at “Trump University”. That would actually work in Trump’s favor. If the promises were mere puffery, or salesmanship, then he can argue that they weren’t meant to be taken literally, and it wasn’t reasonable for anyone to do so. It’s the difference between, “This is a great opportunity to learn about how to buy and sell real estate so you, too, can be a wheeler and dealer” versus, “Take this course and you will be able to make a profit by flipping houses.” ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/13 "2016-06-02T17:13:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Still, I find it hard to have much sympathy for someone gullible enough to pay for courses at “Trump University”. You and that bandit from _The Magnificent Seven_ [QUOTE=Calvera] If God did not want them sheared, He would not have made them sheep. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/14 "2016-06-02T17:29:52Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > That’s a bit harsh. You’re stuck in a low paying, dead end job A lot of poor people sure had a lot of money to attend TU. > [@](#): > > Doesn’t make them stupid or deserving of being defrauded, just desperate. If people believe, “Hey give me thousands of dollars and I’ll tell you a real estate secret that will make you a billionaire like Trump.” Then yes, they are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/15 "2016-06-02T17:38:06Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > A lot of poor people sure had a lot of money to attend TU. > If people believe, “Hey give me thousands of dollars and I’ll tell you a real estate secret that will make you a billionaire like Trump.” Then yes, they are stupid. I think a lot of them maxed out their credit cards or took second mortgages to attend Trump U. I still think it’s unfair to call them stupid when Trump U was designed to take advantage of their gullibility. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/16 "2016-06-02T17:38:23Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Jesus, Trump is like the dude in the Halloween movies. Nothing kills him. To be exposed as the perpetrator of utter and complete fraud should kill any candidate. But then should have ragging on a POW, calling Mexicans rapists, making fun of a disabled reporter, accusing a reporter of being on her period, wanting to stop Muslims from entering the US, etc. ad infinitum. His supporters don’t give a flying fuck about any of this any more than they care about facts. He’s totally got them mesmerized and incapable of telling right from wrong. There is a [governor](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=794523) who has done all the same stuff. Like Trump, Lepage seems to be unstoppable. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/17 "2016-06-02T17:48:13Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > A lot of poor people sure had a lot of money to attend TU. > > If people believe, “Hey give me thousands of dollars and I’ll tell you a real estate secret that will make you a billionaire like Trump.” Then yes, they are stupid. [There’s other sources of money.](http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/01/news/trump-university-employees/) > [@](#): > > Schnackenberg told the story of a couple he talked to the month before he quit who had no money to pay the $35,000 tuition. Schnackenberg said they were talked into using the husband’s disability income and a home equity loan to pay for it. [Money](http://time.com/money/4353732/trump-university-scam-credit-card-debt/) > [@](#): > > Borrow from your retirement plan. Big financial penalties must be paid when borrowing from your 401(k) plan. So it’s universally considered a bad idea to withdraw cash from a retirement account. It’s a move of last resort, after you’ve exhausted all other options. Nonetheless, this too is suggested to students in the Trump U playbook: “Check with a tax attorney to see how you might borrow from your own retirement account to finance real estate investments.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/18 "2016-06-02T17:59:24Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > …Then yes, they are stupid. Well, then, they are the natural prey of the smart and the ruthless. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/19 "2016-06-02T18:21:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, then, they are the natural prey of the smart and the ruthless. That doesn’t justify preying on them. The legal system takes a dim view of it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/20 "2016-06-02T18:22:56Z")
Trump is a huckster, but I don’t see much that distinguishes him from all sorts of other promoters promoting various get-rich-quick investment-seminar schemes. They’re all over the place. > [@running\_coach](#): > > [There’s other sources of money.](http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/01/news/trump-university-employees/) > [Money](http://time.com/money/4353732/trump-university-scam-credit-card-debt/) This seems like a misleading article, and an invalid cite on your part. You’re discussing how people could afford to pay for the TU fees, but the quotes from the seminar literature are primarily about how people could afford to finance their real estate investments. Not that I recommend high-interest or penalty laden sources of funds for RE investments, but you have to spend money to make money, and if you are a talented person and inclined to high risk investing you can make it work. [It’s particularly odd to impugn their recommendation that you “Check with a tax attorney …” as being an attempt to convince people to do something stupid. If it’s stupid, then the tax attorney would say that. FWIW, my BIL is a tax attorney and when he left his law firm for a corporate job he - if I understood him correctly - rolled over his 401k into an IRA and then used that money to buy investment real estate “inside an IRA” So it’s not like this is something that can’t be done, if you know what you’re doing.] All that said, I would scoff at the notion that it would have been worthwhile for people to attend TU - or any of these other seminars of that sort. Still, I’m skeptical of whether it was criminal. Advertising and salesmanship. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317.md?page=2)