# Trump U. : "This is straight-up fraud" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 2, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317 "2016-06-02T15:34:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/61 "2016-06-03T15:18:47Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > What could have been a turning-point election ceased to have anything to do with issues, change, problems, solutions and progress about a month ago, and is now a single-item vote on whether America deserves to live or not. Unfortunately, I think you’re right. We’ve gone through a lot of bullshit over the years about how this president or that president will drag the country down. (I remember someone saying, in 1976, that Jimmy Carter was the anti-Christ!) If Trump wins, it may very well be the first president in American history (certainly in modern history) who has no political or military experience whatsoever. I won’t argue quality of service, just the fact of service: Obama: served as senator Bush: Governor of Texas Clinton: Governor of Arkansas Bush: VP, Director of CIA Reagan: Governor of CA Carter: Governor of GA Ford: Senator, VP Nixon: VP, Congressman Johnson: VP, Senator Kennedy: Senator Eisenhower: Soldier Truman: Senator, VP FDR: Governor of NY I could go on, but you get the point. For more than 80 years, every single president has had political or military experience. (I don’t think Eisenhower had direct political experience (holding office) before elected president, but I submit that being a Supreme Allied Commander gave him plenty of political experience. In my book, even military politics trumps office politics (no pun intended). Although Trump might be considered successful at office politics, in my opinion, he doesn’t have the political or military knowledge to be C-I-C. Having said all that, if he were to be elected, I fear it really would be the end of America. Not literally, as if the country would be wiped off the map, but our global dominance would be shattered. We’d lose our “empire” as it were, much as other countries have: Spain, Portugal, Egypt, Great Britain. All are still important on the world stage, but the sun does set on the British empire now, and the Spanish Armada is no longer feared. Portugal doesn’t explore as they used to, and Egypt, while home to one of the earliest civilizations on Earth, isn’t exactly a global superpower. If you want to see the US fall to its knees, vote for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/62 "2016-06-03T15:43:58Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > If you want to see the US fall to its knees, vote for Trump. I’d like to re state this as… An America that is on its knees would elect Trump president… although both are true. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/63 "2016-06-03T15:46:33Z")
Nit pick: A “soldier” is usually an enlisted man. Eisenhower was a 5 Star General. And he was military governor of Germany right after WWII. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/64 "2016-06-03T15:54:10Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > For more than 80 years, every single president has had political or military experience. As far as I can tell, the only one _ever_ who hadn’t served in the military or held elected office was the one who’d been a Cabinet Secretary for 7+ years. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/65 "2016-06-03T15:55:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Nit pick: A “soldier” is usually an enlisted man. Eisenhower was a 5 Star General. And he was military governor of Germany right after WWII. I’ll accept your nitpick. My point stands though, about military (and therefore political) experience vs bullying tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/66 "2016-06-03T16:10:52Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > If Trump wins, it may very well be the first president in American history (certainly in modern history) who has no political or military experience whatsoever. I could just barely see accepting someone with neither experience, if they were a truly qualified individual in some majority of other ways. I am iffy about military experience being valuable, except in that someone who serves, especially in wartime, has a viewpoint and understanding as CiC that simply can’t be obtained any other way. (In that respect, I’d value a CIB over birds or stars on the shoulders.) Political experience is a sine qua non, though. It’s an immensely complicated and difficult job that absolute demands political skill in the most basic (and positive) sense. The idea that a newb, an “outsider,” a “non elite,” or someone who’s just managed a payroll is competent for this or any position above maybe state congress is pernicious nonsense… but we live in an era where everyone’s ability and opinion is just as good as anyone else’s, and true excellence is shit on unless it wins a Grammy. Obama’s lack of experience showed - it caused him to waste most of his first term. Had he come in after, say, a term as Illinois governor, he would have put up with half as much shit and spent less time thinking he could organize and policy-wonk everything in a back room. Since he’s rolled up his sleeves and started yanking the levers, he’s turned into what a President should be. Whatever positive qualities and experience Trump has - and I honestly can’t think of a one, given that his vaunted business brilliance is largely fictional bluster - his lack of even the most basic political experience coupled with his outrageous worldview and personality means he’ll yank all the levers… and break them off. And then say it doesn’t matter and was someone else’s fault and just wait a bit because he’s going to do great things for us all. But I say this as if pretty much ever reader here didn’t know it already. We only need one slogan now: **Stop Trump in 2016.** ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/67 "2016-06-03T16:13:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Nit pick: A “soldier” is usually an enlisted man. “Usually” simply because there’s a lot more enlisted men but I’ve never thought of the word as so limited. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/68 "2016-06-03T16:43:10Z")
Another spike. > **[Column: Lesson 1 at Trump University: The hard sell](https://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-trump-university-20160603-snap-story.html)** > > Donald Trump, who has a track record of vowing he’ll do things and then not doing them, vowed Thursday to reopen his controversial Trump University, which is at the center of multiple lawsuits. > [@](#): > > Did he commit fraud? Take a look at the text of a newspaper ad that ran in these pages in 2007. It quoted a tough-looking Trump as saying that “investors nationwide are making millions in foreclosures … and so can you! I’m going to give you two hours of access to one of my amazing instructors AND priceless information … all for FREE.” > [@](#): > > That’s because I was one of the few reporters who actually attended a Trump University seminar and wrote about the experience. I’d seen the ad described above and decided, what the heck, I might as well spend a couple of hours at the Pasadena Hilton seeing what Trump (or his minions) had to say about scoring big bucks off foreclosures. > > The seminar turned out to be nothing more than a two-hour sales pitch for a three-day workshop costing nearly $1,500. That priceless information on making millions from real estate could be boiled down to this: Buy low, sell high. The other thing that all these real estate seminars (not just Trump’s, but the infomercials you see on TV) don’t tell you is how competitive your area will be once you get started. When you see the ad, or attend the seminar, dozens, hundreds, or thousands of people are going to go after the same properties you’re looking at. Supply and demand will drive the price up. Trump et al never seem to mention that, do they? (That doesn’t necessarily make it fraud, by the way, I point that last part out to show how sleazy these people are.) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/69 "2016-06-03T16:48:02Z")
Here’s an article from Salon about Trump’s possibly bribing his way out of lawsuits in Texas and Florida. It’s true that the $35k donation to the Texas attorney general was made years later, but it’s also true that Texas Attorney General’s office was responisble for shutting down the Texas Consumer Protection Division, that was looking to sue Trump U. > **[Trump University scandal looking more like corruption? Trump made political...](https://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/trump_university_scandal_beginning_to_look_more_like_corruption_trump_made_political_donations_to_attorneys_general_who_quietly_dropped_investigations/)** > > The top Republican prosecutors in Texas and Florida dismissed complaints against Trump's scam after receiving funds > [@](#): > > According to the former deputy director of Texas’ Consumer Protection Division, Abbott’s decision to drop the case was clearly motivated by Trump’s political involvement. > > “The decision not to sue him was political,” John Owens told The Dallas Morning News. “Had [Trump] not been involved in politics to the extent he was at the time, we would have gotten approval. Had he been just some other scam artist, we would have sued him” OTOH, the Florida case stinks even worse - > [@](#): > > In Florida, the AP reported that “Attorney General Pam Bondi briefly considered joining with Schneiderman in a multi-state suit against Trump University,” but decided against it after a political contribution from Trump: > > ``` > *Three days after Bondi’s spokeswoman was quoted in local media reports as saying the office was reviewing the New York lawsuit, the Donald J. Trump Foundation made a $25,000 contribution to a political fundraising committee supporting Bondi’s re-election campaign. > > Bondi, a Republican, soon dropped her investigation, citing insufficient grounds to proceed.* > > ``` Italics mine. In that last bit there, Salon is quoting from the AP article, which did the initial reporting - [http://bigstory.ap.org/article/67444ec825f3460ba4aadefc0d29d22f/trump-university-model-sell-hard-demand-see-warrant](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/67444ec825f3460ba4aadefc0d29d22f/trump-university-model-sell-hard-demand-see-warrant) Bondi, who is still the FL AG, originally support Jeb! last summer, but when he dropped out in March, she switched her endorsement to Trump ahead of the Florida primary. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/14/florida-attorney-general-pam-bondi-endorses-donald-trump/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/14/florida-attorney-general-pam-bondi-endorses-donald-trump/) The Miami Herald and The Tampa Bay Times are both reporting that Bondi might be in the running for Trump VP. (She has the hair for it, certainly). [http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2016/05/add-one-more-name-to-donald-trumps-potential-vp-list-pam-bondi.html](http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2016/05/add-one-more-name-to-donald-trumps-potential-vp-list-pam-bondi.html) [http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/pam-bondi-for-vice-presdent/2276111](http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/pam-bondi-for-vice-presdent/2276111) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/70 "2016-06-03T17:07:46Z")
The thing is, Trump’s fans will see nothing whatsoever wrong with paying off an Attorney General to make a lawsuit go away. This will be perfectly fine with them. Business as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/71 "2016-06-03T17:15:12Z")
Yeah, but we’re not just talking to Trump’s fans anymore. Trump voters can’t be reasoned with because they’re not Trump voters for rational reasons. This is about talking to all the people who might vote in the General Election, who haven’t been paying attention for the last year (which, let’s face it, is most people). And, also, maybe shining some sunlight on the Texas and Florida officials who declined to prosecute him. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/72 "2016-06-03T17:19:19Z")
You know,\* lurkers\*. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/73 "2016-06-03T19:38:40Z")
> [@](#): > > **Donald Trump** : “I was a businessman, I give to everybody. When they call, I give. And you know what? When I need something from them, two years later, three years later, I call them, and they are there for me”: As a [Salon article](http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/trump_university_scandal_beginning_to_look_more_like_corruption_trump_made_political_donations_to_attorneys_general_who_quietly_dropped_investigations/)states, the Trump university case is beginning to look a lot more like corruption. Would be interesting if a whistleblower shows up who has knowledge of why the cases against Trump U were dropped in Florida, after a “contribution” by Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/74 "2016-06-03T19:49:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The thing is, Trump’s fans will see nothing whatsoever wrong with paying off an Attorney General to make a lawsuit go away. > > This will be perfectly fine with them. Business as usual. That’s how you Deal. And Get Things Done. And bring Something Wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/75 "2016-06-03T20:07:40Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > As a [Salon article](http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/trump_university_scandal_beginning_to_look_more_like_corruption_trump_made_political_donations_to_attorneys_general_who_quietly_dropped_investigations/)states, the Trump university case is beginning to look a lot more like corruption. > > Would be interesting if a whistleblower shows up who has knowledge of why the cases against Trump U were dropped in Florida, after a “contribution” by Trump. Video of Trump being pulled off the stage in cuffs during the convention would get the most views ever. Please, God? Pretty please. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/76 "2016-06-03T20:17:38Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > While it hasn’t happened yet, it may still. > > Trump simply doesn’t like the idea of any furriners runnin’ his court, er, trial, or whatever. > > [http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_GOP\_2016\_TRUMP\_UNIVERSITY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-06-03-09-32-11](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GOP_2016_TRUMP_UNIVERSITY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-06-03-09-32-11) > > First, Trump said the judge was Mexican. Wrong. Now, the judge has a conflict because he’s of “Mexican heritage”. Ferchrissakes, is he _trying_ to alienate everyone who isn’t a white male? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/77 "2016-06-03T20:19:11Z")
A day after officially endorsing Trump, Paul Ryan turns around [and disavows him](http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/paul-ryan-disavows-trump-s-attack-judge-s-mexican-heritage-n585396) for the “Mexican heritage” thing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/78 "2016-06-03T20:22:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > A day after officially endorsing Trump, Paul Ryan turns around [and disavows him](http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/paul-ryan-disavows-trump-s-attack-judge-s-mexican-heritage-n585396) for the “Mexican heritage” thing. > [@](#): > > And in an interview with MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell on Friday, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Trump should be doing more to unite Republicans. **Though McConnell said he was unfamiliar with Trump’s comments about the judge,** he called the real estate mogul’s attacks on New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez “completely unfortunate and unnecessary.” Does he spend his whole life with his head in the sand? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/79 "2016-06-03T20:45:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I disagree, in this case. > > They don’t say “consult with your attorney to see **that** you can …” but “consult with your attorney to see **how** you can …”. They’re implying that there are different ways to structure this and you need the expertise of your tax attorney to see how to do it. > > I do agree that there’s some fakery involved, but not that they’re not expecting these guys to consult an attorney. Rather, that after consulting an attorney the vast majority of these people are going to find out that it’s not really practical to use their retirement money to fund real estate investments. So the fakery is - in keeping with the spirit of the entire course - in pretending that it’s easier to make a fortune in real estate than it actually is. But I don’t think they’re expecting people to just yank their retirement money out, as you suggest. In other words: The class was such an obvious scam that it would be ridiculous to call it a scam. Anyone with two brain cells could see it was a scam, so the people who got scammed did it to themselves. Everyone knows real estate seminars are obvious frauds, so it’s not really fraud to offer a fraudulent real estate seminar. Trump is such an obvious fraud that you’d have to be an idiot to buy anything from him, and so it’s not fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317/80 "2016-06-03T21:11:11Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Ferchrissakes, is he _trying_ to alienate everyone who isn’t a white male? I am squarely in the Drumpf demographic by age, ethnicity and ancestry, and gender, and he’s alienated me more than any public figure in decades. So you have to extend it to “…white male who feels deeply disaffected by the empowerment of everyone who isn’t a somewhat older white male.” And then the answer is clearly “yes.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-u-this-is-straight-up-fraud/756317.md?page=5)