# Trump voters explain themselves **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 4, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307 "2017-01-04T13:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/181 "2017-01-10T01:05:56Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s a curious example you’ve selected there. Most people would be very leery of poking a snake with a stick. Because they don’t want to get bitten. > > Or bombed. It is stupid to consider Trump’s unpredictability an asset. Read **Budget Player Cadet** ’s excellent post above to understand why. You really think America’s foreign policy should be based on this? Putin believes he can control Trump through flattery. I’m pretty sure he can, too. Even before taking office, Trump already finds himself at odds with his own party members for his affection for Putin and his (Trump’s) pro-Russian stance, going so far as to dispute and deny our own intelligence on the matter. What a sad state of affairs that is. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/182 "2017-01-10T02:54:33Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It is stupid to consider Trump’s unpredictability an asset. Read **Budget Player Cadet** ’s excellent post above to understand why. I’ve already read BPC’s post. If you were paying attention you would probably have noticed that my initial comment on this subject was in response to BPC’s post. I’ve not said that Trump’s unpredictability is an asset. I only said that WRT one specific issue brought up by BPC - whether Putin was likely to challenge the US via military adventurism - Trump’s unpredictability is an asset. But speaking of stupid, I’ll tell you something that’s really stupid. It’s deciding that since you really really dislike Trump, you are going to consider every single aspect of his presidency a negative in every possible way, and won’t consider the possibility that there could be any sort of positive aspect at all. That’s stupid. Certain people are prone to that, nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/183 "2017-01-10T03:00:26Z")
Suppose you are the guy in some foreign country who makes the decision. Russia, China, Iran, doesn’t matter, pick one. And a high tension situation between your country and the US emerges. The kind of situation where one fuck-up on either side and the results are counted in megadeath. Ans you’re looking for the first steps in the tip-toe dance of de-escalating. Would you rather have Trump on the other end of the phone, or Hillary? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/184 "2017-01-10T03:13:29Z")
If you’re looking for de-escalating, you want Hillary. But if you’re looking to escalate, you also want Hillary. BPC was suggesting that Trump would make it more likely that Putin would “invad[e] some dinky NATO member”. The opposite is true. To the extent that you’re willing to play high stakes chicken - and [there’s considerable speculation that Putin is willing to do this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=783198) - you’re more afraid of the loose cannon than of the conventional pol. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/185 "2017-01-10T03:15:11Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But speaking of stupid, I’ll tell you something that’s really stupid. It’s deciding that since you really really dislike Trump, you are going to consider every single aspect of his presidency a negative in every possible way, and won’t consider the possibility that there could be any sort of positive aspect at all. That’s stupid. Certain people are prone to that, nonetheless. Since the intent of your post is thinly veiled, let me say that I’m perfectly willing to give Trump credit when he does something positive. So far, the record is dismal. I detest all of his cabinet appointments. I was startled when he scolded Republicans for trying to weaken and/or do away with the independent ethics committee. Seemed so out of character and frankly, ironic. But yes; a positive. Not to worry – Trump enjoys the benefit of exceedingly low expectations from me. It won’t take much to impress. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/186 "2017-01-10T04:45:55Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Since the intent of your post is thinly veiled, let me say that I’m perfectly willing to give Trump credit when he does something positive. So far, the record is dismal. I detest all of his cabinet appointments. I was startled when he scolded Republicans for trying to weaken and/or do away with the independent ethics committee. Seemed so out of character and frankly, ironic. But yes; a positive. > > Not to worry – Trump enjoys the benefit of exceedingly low expectations from me. It won’t take much to impress. If ever there was a false flag it’s that softball letting him look good in spite of himself. I think the junior members got triumphal, thinking the lifelong party was just getting started (Like not a few here) and they could do anything, and senior members got ahold of don the con and told him it was the worst look ever, especially when you have long term oligarchy in mind. Trump is really a troll on the electorate and his positives are nonexistent at the moment. It’s really the wrong season and the wrong pres elect to start getting red about how people aren’t seeing positives. I mean really. I’m pretty sure he is soft on Putins adventures and I don’t see why that would change. Putin wanted him in there. I would ask: is don the con mysterious? He’s predictable, to Putin as he is to us. That argument fails. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/187 "2017-01-10T05:32:35Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Honest means he believed what he was saying. It’s irrelevant to my point whether it was true. He didn’t censor his words, unlike Hillary who wouldn’t let a word slip out of her mouth that hadn’t been polished by scriptwriters and practiced in front of the mirror. Trump spoke as he thought and to hell with the consequences. You have to admit that’s unusual for a politician. Yeah. It’s unusual for a politician. Because of literally everything I just brought up. Because when you’re the president, the ships your loose lips sink may very well be the USS Ronald Reagan. Because your words hold substantial power, and just “saying things” can be stupidly dangerous. And yes, as others have pointed out, if he actually _believed_ half of what he was saying, he’s dangerously delusional as well - did he honestly _believe_ that he was being unfairly treated by the debate commission when they ran one or two debates up against NFL games (which they could not reasonably have dodged)? Did he honestly _believe_ that Aleppo had “already fallen”? > [@](#): > > And, of course, to the dismay and despair of all those who thought they knew better, it actually worked. You may mock him, despise him, and I’m sure you all do but the fact is he is the most extraordinary candidate to run for President in a century at least. It’s certainly extraordinary. Not in any good way, though. It’s a dire indication of how stupid the American populace are. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If you’re looking for de-escalating, you want Hillary. But if you’re looking to escalate, you also want Hillary. > > BPC was suggesting that Trump would make it more likely that Putin would “invad[e] some dinky NATO member”. The opposite is true. To the extent that you’re willing to play high stakes chicken - and [there’s considerable speculation that Putin is willing to do this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=783198) - you’re more afraid of the loose cannon than of the conventional pol. Look at the specific example. Trump said pretty clearly that our allies in NATO need to “pull their weight”, or we would stop supporting them. You’d rather invade, say, Croatia, under a president who has said in no uncertain terms that we would support our allies in NATO, or under a president who has said, well, the opposite? Loose cannon or not, Trump’s unclear foreign policy position constitutes a _risk_. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/188 "2017-01-10T06:59:17Z")
And oh, look: > **[Official: US Navy ship fires warning shots at Iranian boats | CNN Politics](http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/09/politics/us-iran-warning-shots/)** > > A US Navy ship fired warning shots at Iranian boats on Sunday near the Strait of Hormuz, a US official said Monday, citing initial reports. We’re firing warning shots at Iranian vessels. “Loose lips sink ships” indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/189 "2017-01-10T08:28:35Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > We’re firing warning shots at Iranian vessels. > > “Loose lips sink ships” indeed. Isn’t Obama still President? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/190 "2017-01-10T14:15:35Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t know what he would do. Neither does Putin, which is the point. I beg to differ. We know what Trump did, as does Putin. He dismissed reality. Intelligent people would reasonably infer that past behaviour is a good indicator of future behaviour. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > At the time Trump said that, he was being pressed on something that negatively impacted his campaign, so he responded off-the-cuff in a way most beneficial to him. That’s not an indicator of how he would react if there was actually a foreign policy crisis and his senior people apprised him of the situation.At this point Trump is a lot friendlier to Putin than Clinton. But if Putin was looking to do something clearly provocative to the US and was gambling that the US wouldn’t risk all out war, he’s more likely to test Clinton than Trump. Trump is a wild card. While I appreciate the desire to look for the silver lining in Trump’s severely flawed persona, I see no advantage in viewing his “upredictability” as an asset for the position of POTUS. What’s more, his upredictability has become nothing but predictable at this point. Trump can be counted on acting like a petulant and immature loudmouth rhetorically, but when faced with actual authority, (i.e. Mexican President), he suddenly turns to milquetoast. Imagine him being faced and challenged by Putin; Trump will fold like the cheap suits that he wears. Trump is Putin’s muppet at this point, at best, he’s Putin’s useful idiot, and there is no evidence that he will behave otherwise when he assumes the position of POTUS. Thus far, Trump being a “wild card”, has only served to negatively impact US standing and only NATO allies are concerned about the (negative) impact he’ll have as POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/191 "2017-01-10T14:19:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s a fair point. I’m personally fuzzy on the timeline, but Wikipedia says Trump started talking about it publicly in 2011 and Breitbart didn’t publish the promotional booklet until 2012. Do you think he believed it, or knew it was bullshit but pushed it anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/192 "2017-01-10T14:47:47Z")
OK, I think we’re at an impasse on the Putin issue. I stand by my previous posts, but have nothing further to add at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/193 "2017-01-10T15:09:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There’s another line of thinking that Trump is the brilliant puppet-master manipulating the press into reporting / talking about what he wants, rather than some other story that would be worse for him. I don’t know if that’s what **Fotheringay-Phipps** was referring to, but it’s certainly one ‘school of thought’ around Trump’s tweets. [Here](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/08/the_art_of_journalism_in_the_age_of_trump_132735.html) is an article that touches on that thinking: So our two choices are: 1. Trump is a dangerous cretin; or 2. Trump is a master propagandist who tricks the fourth estate into reporting on irrelevancies so that the voting public doesn’t find out about the significant stuff he’s doing, stuff that would cause a genuine outrage if folks knew about it. I’m a little confused whether you think this second alternative is a defense of his behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/194 "2017-01-10T15:14:05Z")
Similarly, aldiboronti, you seem to find it refreshing that we’ve elected a man as president whose grasp on reality is so tenuous that he’s literally incapable of dishonesty, inasmuch as, like a two-year-old, he cannot hold in his head one idea as true but speak another idea out loud. If you find yourself defending your party’s leader in such terms, perhaps it’s time to reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/195 "2017-01-10T16:01:13Z")
A 20-something in [The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/a-voter-in-his-twenties-gives-up-on-liberal-democracy/512525/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAtlantic+%28The+Atlantic+-+Master+Feed%29) explains why he supports Trump. His post is long; this is the very beginning and the very end of it. > [@](#): > > …Liberal Democracy’s underpinning was very simple: no other system could deliver constant gains to living standards, widely distributed prosperity, and government which was institutionally capable. The alternatives had either been systematically destroyed and buried by history or collapsed upon themselves. > > The conditions which legitimized Liberal Democracy have now ended. Liberal Democracy, in the aftermath of the financial crisis, has produced a crisis of underemployment, stagnant growth, systemic incompetence, and total declining living standards for all but a tiny minority of people who have reaped essentially all meaningful benefits from globalization. > > … > > ``` > I voted for Trump because I think his illiberal tendencies are actually a feature rather than a bug. When he undermines rule of law, I see not a danger, but someone who is undermining a system that has become a game for elites with access to armies of lawyers. When he browbeats Congress, I don’t worry about “checks and balances” which have become a recipe for dysfunction, but rather see him as a man taking on useless political prostitutes servicing everyone who can write a sufficiently large campaign check. When he strong-arms multinational companies like Carrier, I see someone standing up to the worst aspects of globalization. > > The masses of the people do not have anyone in government standing for their interests and need a strong leader to fight an elite that is both rapacious and incompetent. Rather than accept our system of design by committee, what is needed is a strong leader to clear away the policy kludges, rent seeking, and incompetence of the lobbyists and their pet legislators. > > The only way Trump can lose my loyalty is if he fails to fight the John McCains, Paul Ryans, Chuck Schumers and others on both the Corporate Right and Identity Politics Left who prefer fixed ideas and ideological navel gazing to national well being. If he takes them on, and can improve the living standards of most Americans, then he has my total support. The concern is not ideological consistency or respect for the rules. > > Instead, my concerns will be very basic. Does he improve economic growth? Does he reduce crime? Reduce unemployment rates? Increase average incomes? > > If he can do that, I’m happy. > > ``` Note his belief that the function of a competent government is to “deliver constant gains to living standards, widely distributed prosperity.” IS this the function of government? ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/196 "2017-01-10T16:02:23Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > He didn’t censor his words, unlike Hillary who wouldn’t let a word slip out of her mouth that hadn’t been polished by scriptwriters and practiced in front of the mirror. Who can blame her? She gave thoughtful, empathetic answers about Trump voters, West Virginia miners, and the victims of Benghazi, to name a few, but all that was reported was “deplorable”, “We’re going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business,”, and “what does it matter?” all taken completely out of context. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/197 "2017-01-10T16:17:22Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > A 20-something in [The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/a-voter-in-his-twenties-gives-up-on-liberal-democracy/512525/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAtlantic+%28The+Atlantic+-+Master+Feed%29) explains why he supports Trump. His post is long; this is the very beginning and the very end of it. > > Note his belief that the function of a competent government is to “deliver constant gains to living standards, widely distributed prosperity.” IS this the function of government? Note also his complete lack of awareness of the facts of the past 8 years of Obama’s presidency on the issues he considers key to Trump’s success: [QUOTE=20-something] Instead, my concerns will be very basic. Does he improve economic growth? Does he reduce crime? Reduce unemployment rates? Increase average incomes? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/198 "2017-01-10T16:28:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Note also his complete lack of awareness of the facts of the past 8 years of Obama’s presidency on the issues he considers key to Trump’s success: This is the part that caught my eye. > [@](#): > > When he undermines rule of law, I see not a danger, but someone who is undermining a system that has become a game for elites with access to armies of lawyers. He voted for the Grandmaster of such behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/199 "2017-01-10T17:29:34Z")
> [@What emotion best describes your feelings about Trump's victory/presidency?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-emotion-best-describes-your-feelings-about-trumps-victory-presidency/776237/112): > > Obama never said he was going to take your guns away, outlaw Christianity, or replace the Constitution with shariah law. But you were smart enough to know what he _really_ meant: that he was gonna do all that plus institute mandatory gay porn viewing in elementary schools. > > Meryl Streep never mentioned the president-elect by name, but you figured out what she was _really_ saying: “The new administration will create a whites-only society unless you rise up and kill them _now!!!_” > > So if you can “read between the lines”, why can’t we? Not for nothing, but the above is a blatant strawman. Explain to me why I should entertain it? > [@](#): > > If I say the president-elect’s goal is to create a whites-only society, how can you fault me for “reading between the lines” of everything he’s said for the last… what, six years? Rather easily, considering Trump has never said nor insinuated anything of the sort. Are you trying to be a caricature of liberals? > [@](#): > > As a side note, speaking of his racism, here’s something I’m surprised doesn’t get brought up more often: to _this very day_, Donald Trump wants the state to kill [five black men](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/08/donald-trumps-doubling-down-on-the-central-park-five-reflects-a-bigger-problem/?utm_term=.77164850d713) who it’s been pretty conclusively established _didn’t do anything_. What do his supporters suggest is the reason he still wants these men dead? I can only think of one reason: to intimidate “the blacks” into submission. To say “You’d better watch yourself, because we can kill you for any reason, or for no reason at all.” (Note that this is not a direct quote, I’m “paraphrasing”). Are you looking for a serious response, or are you content to engage in histrionics? Because if it’s the latter, I’m more than content to let you do so for the next four, and hopefully eight, years. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Oh, yes. Which is why he avoids making deliberately provocative moves like invading Ukraine or shooting civilian airliners flying over Ukraine airspace out of the sky. He’s real worried about war. :rolleyes: Considering that the US has hundreds of troops stationed in countries along Russia’s border, and missiles in Europe aimed directly as Russia, yes, I do think he’d be worried about potential conflict with the US should Hillary, a known war hawk, have won. I mean, explain to me why he wouldn’t prefer the person who would rather some semblance of diplomacy to the person who talked about doing things to antagonize Russia, and even talked openly about engaging in actions that would lead to outright conflict with Russia (like establishing a NFZ in Syria)? While I understand that it’s suddenly become all the rage among leftists to beat the war drum in regards to-- how did Obama put it?-- “a declining regional power”, that doesn’t make it any less asinine of a suggestion or a position to take. > [@](#): > > You attribute benevolence to Putin that he has demonstrated nowhere, and to no one. The talent Putin has demonstrated is that he knows a patsy when he sees one: [“I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul.”](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1392791.stm) Where did I attribute benevolence to Putin? You’ve completely made that up. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/200 "2017-01-10T17:40:01Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Note his belief that the function of a competent government is to “deliver constant gains to living standards, widely distributed prosperity.” IS this the function of government? Everyone wants the government to do that. The arguments and the differences are about the means and the limitations on the government in pursuit of those goals. For a lot of conservatives, those goals do NOT justify the means used (that apart from arguments whether the means actually further those goals). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307.md?page=11)