# Trump voters explain themselves **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 4, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307 "2017-01-04T13:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/283 "2017-01-12T19:11:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s your prerogative, of course. But meanwhile, I stand by my interpretation of your remarks and don’t see a possible alternative. > > Your statement was that “_It’s rather evident that you doubt it [i.e. Reyes’ testimony absolving the others - F-P] much more than those who have heard all the evidence and ruled on the matter._” > > To the extent that “those who have heard all the evidence and ruled on the matter” were using “guilty beyond reasonable doubt” as their yardstick, then there’s nothing evident in their ruling other than that they thought there was a good chance that the earlier trial would have ruled that the sum of the evidence failed to meet that standard. This would be true even if there remained a lot of doubt as to the validity of the Reyes testimony. > > Therefore, the only way to conclude that those who ruled on the matter did not believe there was doubt as to the validity of the Reyes testimony - in contradiction to what I said - is to be ignorant of the “guilty beyond reasonable doubt” standard. Thus one might conclude that the vacating of the sentence would only be done if there was no doubt as to the validity of the testimony, and in contradiction to what I posted. > > I interpreted your remarks along these lines, and continue to believe this to be the correct interpretation. And FTR, while I’m sure you’re in general aware of the concept of “guilty beyond reasonable doubt”, I believe you got lost in the logic here and did not appreciate how this played out WRT this particular argument. You can believe whatever you want, even after being told by one who should know that what you believe is wrong. This is America! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/284 "2017-01-12T19:13:05Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You are confused. > > There is no doubt that Reyes was guilty of the crime to which he confessed. That’s not in question. The question is about his absolving of the others, about which there is much more doubt. Logic and the evidence told many, and the people in authority eventually, that virtually all the previous confessions were poppycock. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/285 "2017-01-12T19:17:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You can believe whatever you want, even after being told by one who should know that what you believe is wrong. This is America! You don’t always take at face value assertions from “one who should know”. Like, in this case, “one who should know” has every reason to cover up for the fact that he said something completely stupid … > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Logic and the evidence told many, and the people in authority eventually, that virtually all the previous confessions were poppycock. Well I guess that settles that, then. Glad you could clear this up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/286 "2017-01-12T19:29:38Z")
[In Iowa, Trump Voters Are Unfazed by Controversies](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/us/donald-trump-iowa-conservatives.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=us&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=U.S.&action=swipe®ion=FixedRight&pgtype=article). ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/287 "2017-01-12T19:48:27Z")
That’s because they recognize these controversies are manufactured in an effort to thwart Trump’s presidency and are relatively minor in nature, especially when compared to all that’s gone wrong in this country that they’re hoping Trump will successfully address. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/288 "2017-01-12T19:53:34Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You don’t always take at face value assertions from “one who should know”. Like, in this case, “one who should know” has every reason to cover up for the fact that he said something completely stupid … > Well I guess that settles that, then. Glad yout could clear this up. 🙂 Indeed, you may think you are showing that that was stupid, but you are only reaching for being technically correct. Of course that item about “guilty beyond reasonable doubt” was not what Trump was going about when he continues to tell others that the 5 should had been executed regardless that their convictions were tossed out. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/289 "2017-01-12T19:57:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That’s because they recognize these controversies are manufactured in an effort to thwart Trump’s presidency and are relatively minor in nature, especially when compared to all that’s gone wrong in this country that they’re hoping Trump will successfully address. I wish I was as smart as all Trump supporters, none of whom have any negative motivations, but only pure and honest and truthful feelings. Man, maybe someday I will be as good as these wonderful true Americans, unlike me and folks like me. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/290 "2017-01-12T19:57:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Indeed, you may think you are showing that that was stupid, but you are only reaching for being technically correct. Of course that item about “guilty beyond reasonable doubt” was not what Trump was going about when he continues to tell others that the 5 should had been executed regardless that their convictions were tossed out. I’m not about to reveal my RL identity, but I’ll narrow the field down a bit and tell you that I’m not Trump. Now try again, in light of that new knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/291 "2017-01-12T20:01:29Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > [In Iowa, Trump Voters Are Unfazed by Controversies](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/us/donald-trump-iowa-conservatives.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=us&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=U.S.&action=swipe®ion=FixedRight&pgtype=article). [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/us/donald-trump-iowa-conservatives.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=us&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=U.S.&action=swipe®ion=FixedRight&pgtype=article](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/us/donald-trump-iowa-conservatives.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=us&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=U.S.&action=swipe®ion=FixedRight&pgtype=article) > [@](#): > > The Table of Knowledge was delving into President-elect Donald J. Trump’s plans to upend government, and marveling at how he had forced his fellow Republicans in the House to reverse themselves on gutting the Office of Congressional Ethics. > “He’s getting responses; things are happening,” Jerry Retzlaff, a retiree, said. “He got Congress to turn themselves around with one tweet.” It has to be noted, a lot of the ones that voted differently in the rust belt did so because they did expect Trump to drain the swamp indeed. As I noted, it will take time, but one just needs a significant number of those voters to realize they were had to eventually vote for people that will be less ethically challenged. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/292 "2017-01-12T20:06:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not about to reveal my RL identity, but I’ll narrow the field down a bit and tell you that I’m not Trump. > > Now try again, in light of that new knowledge. What you need to realize is that the thread is about what Trump is stupidly saying, and in the context of the tread, we expect the Trump voters to explain why voting for him was justified. So what you are going on is indeed a hijack. If you can not explain why is Trump still spewing stupid things that are designed to divide the nation you should stop. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/293 "2017-01-12T20:12:46Z")
Not only am I not Trump but I’m not even a Trump voter. You’ve been around for 15 years and have 25K posts. You should be aware by now that not every post to a thread consists of a ringing endorsement of - or attack on - the OP. If you’re in a thread about Trump and someone says that Trump’s faults are so great that he contradicted “_evidence of their innocence [which] is as close to reliable as science has to offer us at this time_”, then that assertion is fair game for discussion. And this is so regardless of whether you yourself are or support Trump or the full extent of Trump’s position on that case. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/294 "2017-01-12T20:14:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wish I was as smart as all Trump supporters, none of whom have any negative motivations, but only pure and honest and truthful feelings. Man, maybe someday I will be as good as these wonderful true Americans, unlike me and folks like me. As a hint to their thought processes you might take note of the comment one of those guys made about how we need to bring law and order back. There’s a widespread feeling that liberalism is soft on crime. This is evident in the way liberals are constantly doing battle on behalf of criminals, making excuses for their behavior, developing revolving-door imprisonment of the sort that has violent and hardened criminals with tons of arrests and jailings in their past out and committing more crimes while still in their 20s and 30s, seeking to hamper the police seemingly in every way possible, and mocking the values that cause people to grow up less likely to be criminals in the first place. Those who approve of all this think they’re the good guys. Those who disapprove think they’re the good guys. So who’s to decide who the real good guys are? I’m coming down on the law and order side myself because fewer innocent people get raped, robbed, assaulted and murdered that way by people who ought to be in prison but thanks to liberal activism aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/295 "2017-01-12T20:20:20Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not only am I not Trump but I’m not even a Trump voter. > > You’ve been around for 15 years and have 25K posts. You should be aware by now that not every post to a thread consists of a ringing endorsement of - or attack on - the OP. > > If you’re in a thread about Trump and someone says that Trump’s faults are so great that he contradicted “_evidence of their innocence [which] is as close to reliable as science has to offer us at this time_”, then that assertion is fair game for discussion. And this is so regardless of whether you yourself are or support Trump or the full extent of Trump’s position on that case. What I pointed early was: > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Seeing the emails it is clear that, besides a significant number of Democrats not voting, a significant number of Democrats did vote for Trump too; but it is clear that once Clinton is out of the picture those voters are not so willing to favor the Cheeto in chief. So I don’t see much about those voters learning about how wrong they were, but taking their words at face value they are voters that will change alliance at the least provocation/broken promise. > > Trump won thanks to the _ **finical** _ vote. The previous post unrelated to the central park 5 still follows what I pointed out. In reality most voters are not and more IMHO will not be amused by what Trump is doing, they are indeed relying on other institutions (yes, even the press) to keep the Cheeto in chief in check. And so it goes for what Trump did and continues to do with the Central Park 5, in context it was just and effort to keep police, minorities and the current NY administration that did settle with the 5 at odds with each other. On edit: BTW **Starving Artist** just showed there how successful Trump was with some conservatives with that whistle there. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/296 "2017-01-12T20:40:23Z")
It’s a wonder you guys aren’t deaf with all the dog whistles that are allegedly out there. The obvious reason you aren’t is because they aren’t there in reality. Most of us on the right don’t care in the slightest who gets thrown in jail as long as the reason is that they’ve been committing crimes. People raped, robbed, assaulted and murdered by white guys who ought to be in jail are just as bad off as if it were someone of another race who ought to be in jail and wasn’t did the deed. “Dog whistles” like “racism” is just another way of trying to shut down discussion you don’t want to see the light of day. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/297 "2017-01-12T20:44:40Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > As a hint to their thought processes you might take note of the comment one of those guys made about how we need to bring law and order back. There’s a widespread feeling that liberalism is soft on crime. This is evident in the way liberals are constantly doing battle on behalf of criminals, making excuses for their behavior, developing revolving-door imprisonment of the sort that has violent and hardened criminals with tons of arrests and jailings in their past out and committing more crimes while still in their 20s and 30s, seeking to hamper the police seemingly in every way possible, and mocking the values that cause people to grow up less likely to be criminals in the first place. Those who approve of all this think they’re the good guys. Those who disapprove think they’re the good guys. So who’s to decide who the real good guys are? I’m coming down on the law and order side myself because fewer innocent people get raped, robbed, assaulted and murdered that way by people who ought to be in prison but thanks to liberal activism aren’t. That straw man has been properly slayed. Bravo, sir! Well done! ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/298 "2017-01-12T20:48:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s a wonder you guys aren’t deaf with all the dog whistles that are allegedly out there. > > The obvious reason you aren’t is because they aren’t there in reality. Most of us on the right don’t care in the slightest who gets thrown in jail as long as the reason is that they’ve been committing crimes. People raped, robbed, assaulted and murdered by white guys who ought to be in jail are just as bad off as if it were someone of another race who ought to be in jail and wasn’t did the deed. > > “Dog whistles” like “racism” is just another way of trying to shut down discussion you don’t want to see the light of day. I’m a liberal and I think anyone that commits a crime should be punished. So your caricature is false. Feel free to keep trotting it out but its not going to stop being false. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/299 "2017-01-12T20:54:32Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I’m a liberal and I think anyone that commits a crime should be punished. So your caricature is false. Feel free to keep trotting it out but its not going to stop being false. Are you as a liberal doing anything at all to try to keep your ideological brethren from engaging in the anti-law-and-order manner that I’ve outlined? Naturally it stands to reason that not every single liberal in the country is responsible for the state our current justice system is in, but the fact is that the state it’s in has been created largely by liberal activism. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/300 "2017-01-12T21:31:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Are you as a liberal doing anything at all to try to keep your ideological brethren from engaging in the anti-law-and-order manner that I’ve outlined? Naturally it stands to reason that not every single liberal in the country is responsible for the state our current justice system is in, but the fact is that the state it’s in has been created largely by liberal activism. Are you doing anything at all to work against the KKK and white nationalist groups that are your ideological brethren? If not, then why am I responsible for the actions of every liberal but you are not responsible for the actions of every conservative? Hey, here’s a novel idea. Maybe we are all individuals and dividing and categorizing us into two political teams so you can demonize half of the country is not the best way to help create a more perfect union? Just spitballing… ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/301 "2017-01-13T06:16:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Are you as a liberal doing anything at all to try to keep your ideological brethren from engaging in the anti-law-and-order manner that I’ve outlined? Naturally it stands to reason that not every single liberal in the country is responsible for the state our current justice system is in, but the fact is that the state it’s in has been created largely by liberal activism. The state where crime is down substantially across the board and we’re finally starting to address long-standing injustices such as the absolute abuse of the populace by the police in Ferguson, Missouri? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > As a hint to their thought processes you might take note of the comment one of those guys made about how we need to bring law and order back. There’s a widespread feeling that liberalism is soft on crime. This is evident in the way liberals are constantly doing battle on behalf of criminals, making excuses for their behavior, developing revolving-door imprisonment of the sort that has violent and hardened criminals with tons of arrests and jailings in their past out and committing more crimes while still in their 20s and 30s, seeking to hamper the police seemingly in every way possible, and mocking the values that cause people to grow up less likely to be criminals in the first place. Those who approve of all this think they’re the good guys. Those who disapprove think they’re the good guys. So who’s to decide who the real good guys are? I’m coming down on the law and order side myself because fewer innocent people get raped, robbed, assaulted and murdered that way by people who ought to be in prison but thanks to liberal activism aren’t. What a bizarre post. I could not point to any particular part of it that actually comports to reality. In reality, under president Obama, crime is down. _Substantially_. I couldn’t tell you who all these “violent and hardened criminals” are; I _seriously_ doubt you have anything resembling statistics or data on that. While I couldn’t find national data, recidivism in Florida and New York are both down. And when you compare the USA to countries with far, _far_ lower recidivism rates, the difference is not “they’re harder on crime”; indeed, it’s usually quite the opposite. Really, the key part here is this: “There’s a widespread feeling that liberalism is soft on crime.” Feeling. As in, not necessarily anything in reality based on it, just a _feeling_ one has that America has gotten more dangerous. It hasn’t. Crime is _still_ down. It’s at a low we haven’t seen in a long time. This is just an absurd strawman based on a downright Trumpian\* view of reality. \*Distorted, fearful, paranoid, not actually true > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s a wonder you guys aren’t deaf with all the dog whistles that are allegedly out there. > > The obvious reason you aren’t is because they aren’t there in reality. Most of us on the right don’t care in the slightest who gets thrown in jail as long as the reason is that they’ve been committing crimes. People raped, robbed, assaulted and murdered by white guys who ought to be in jail are just as bad off as if it were someone of another race who ought to be in jail and wasn’t did the deed. > > “Dog whistles” like “racism” is just another way of trying to shut down discussion you don’t want to see the light of day. I don’t think I’ve ever met a single liberal who thinks that race should be a mitigating factor in prosecution or sentencing. Ever. Not _one_. Where are you meeting these liberals? Who are you even talking about? Can you find _one_ person on this board who espouses these liberal views you tout? (Other than “dog whistles are a thing that exist”; you’ll find quite a lot of people who believe that because it’s blatantly obvious that historically, it’s _true_.) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/302 "2017-01-13T07:18:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Are you as a liberal doing anything at all to try to keep your ideological brethren from engaging in the anti-law-and-order manner that I’ve outlined? Yes. Whenever I hear it, I call it out in vigorous terms. This is very easy for me to do, as it has happened a grand total of zero times, either in person or online. I have literally never seen a single liberal anywhere make the absurd claims you attribute to “liberalism” here, specifically that we should consider race a mitigating factor in prosecution or sentencing. > [@](#): > > Naturally it stands to reason that not every single liberal in the country is responsible for the state our current justice system is in, but the fact is that the state it’s in has been created largely by liberal activism. The problems with our justice system are not because of liberal activism. Our overflowing prisons are not because liberals decided that three strikes rules and incredibly harsh sentences for drug possession and use are a grand idea; indeed, we’ve been fighting against those laws. Racist, abusive police departments like the one in Ferguson, Missouri and laws like Stop and Frisk which overwhelmingly end up targeting minorities are generally not pushed or supported by liberals; in fact, it’s been the liberal justice department under Obama who has gone after such injustice. Our high recidivism rates are not because of people being “soft on crime” and have stayed fairly close to constant through many administrations, “hard” or “soft” on crime; indeed it is liberals pushing to “ban the box” and make it illegal for employers to discriminate against people with prior criminal convictions, one of the major drivers of recidivism. Our reliance un unsafe, underregulated private prisons is not the fault of liberals; indeed, it is the liberals trying to put an end to that practice. Our skyrocketing crime rates and exceedingly dangerous cities are not the fault of liberals; _they aren’t a thing that exists_. What problems in modern criminal justice do you consider to be “caused by liberal activism”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307.md?page=16)