# Trump voters explain themselves **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 4, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307 "2017-01-04T13:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/161 "2017-01-09T23:20:25Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Or hell, what about his comments about NATO? Trump has made it unclear whether we’d actually defend our NATO allies in the baltics. What happens if Putin decides to take that statement literally _or_ seriously and puts it to the test by invading some dinky NATO member Trump probably can’t even find on a map? Do we cave on our international defense treaties, or do we go to war with Russia? Being unclear on this sort of shit is a _big fucking deal_. Others have linked a similar lack of geopolitical clarity to the start of _both_ world wars, and justifiably so. I disagree with this. Trump’s impulsiveness and unpredictability make it less likely that Putin (or anyone else) would get aggressive and put the US to the test, not more likely. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/162 "2017-01-09T23:23:06Z")
Honest means he believed what he was saying. It’s irrelevant to my point whether it was true. He didn’t censor his words, unlike Hillary who wouldn’t let a word slip out of her mouth that hadn’t been polished by scriptwriters and practiced in front of the mirror. Trump spoke as he thought and to hell with the consequences. You have to admit that’s unusual for a politician. And, of course, to the dismay and despair of all those who thought they knew better, it actually worked. You may mock him, despise him, and I’m sure you all do but the fact is he is the most extraordinary candidate to run for President in a century at least. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/163 "2017-01-09T23:26:18Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > If it felt different, it’s only because you fell for the con. Donald Trump lied _560 times_ in his presidential bid. He offered more and more outrageous whoppers than any candidate in history. He lied about anything and everything. He wasn’t willing to make sure that what he was saying wasn’t going to create an international issue, or that it made any fucking sense whatsoever. You ended up with someone who _sounded_ like he was talking straight, because, “Hey, if he was going to lie, wouldn’t he lie about the stuff that doesn’t make him look like an idiot?” > > Also, a word on “straight-speaking”. > > The reason politicians speak from teleprompters and have their replies vetted is because their words hold significant power. When your allies and enemies have to determine your foreign policy from your actions and words, and you say that we should “blow them out of the water” for taunting our warships stationed off their coast, that speaks _volumes_ to them. To them, you are _threatening war_. It’s not funny. It’s not cute. It’s actually _dangerous_. > > Or another example? Back when Trump floated his idea to give US treasury bonds a haircut, the world was collectively in “No fucking way will this moron ever be president” mode, and he (thank god) walked it back. But imagine he said that now. What kind of absolute _chaos_ would that produce in the global bond markets? _Holy shit guys, the president of the united states just said the bedrock investment that the entire global financial market is based on might not be a guaranteed return any more, what the fuck do we do?!_ > > Or hell, what about his comments about NATO? Trump has made it unclear whether we’d actually defend our NATO allies in the baltics. What happens if Putin decides to take that statement literally _or_ seriously and puts it to the test by invading some dinky NATO member Trump probably can’t even find on a map? Do we cave on our international defense treaties, or do we go to war with Russia? Being unclear on this sort of shit is a _big fucking deal_. Others have linked a similar lack of geopolitical clarity to the start of _both_ world wars, and justifiably so. > > _This is why politicians get their statements vetted._ Because not doing so is stupid, dangerous, foolhardy, arrogant, and in the case of a political neophyte like Trump with so blatantly little understanding of _any_ issue, _COMPLETELY INSANE!_ > > Bill Clinton was a “straight talker”. Donald Trump is a huckster con man. Thanks for saying so perfectly what I feel about this situation every minute of every day. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/164 "2017-01-09T23:26:48Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Honest means he believed what he was saying. It’s irrelevant to my point whether it was true. He didn’t censor his words, unlike Hillary who wouldn’t let a word slip out of her mouth that hadn’t been polished by scriptwriters and practiced in front of the mirror. Trump spoke as he thought and to hell with the consequences. You have to admit that’s unusual for a politician. . And the 5 year old really believed that the dinosaur ate his homework. It’s unusual in a politician, because most politicians act like adults, and don’t just say the first asinine and wrong thing that pops into their heads. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/165 "2017-01-09T23:29:05Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I disagree with this. Trump’s impulsiveness and unpredictability make it less likely that Putin (or anyone else) would get aggressive and put the US to the test, not more likely. Really? You don’t think he’ll simply deny Putin marched into the Balkans? After all, [he denied Putin is in Ukraine](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/289907-trump-incorrectly-says-russia-isnt-in-ukraine). ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/166 "2017-01-09T23:30:03Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I disagree with this. Trump’s impulsiveness and unpredictability make it less likely that Putin (or anyone else) would get aggressive and put the US to the test, not more likely. You bet. And that’s why Putin took personal control over the Russian disinformation campaign intended to help Trump over the hump. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/167 "2017-01-09T23:54:23Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You bet. And that’s why Putin took personal control over the Russian disinformation campaign intended to help Trump over the hump. Entertaining this as true, that’s likely because Hillary was actively beating the war drum, and Putin realizes that war benefits no one. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/168 "2017-01-09T23:58:45Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Honest means he believed what he was saying. It’s irrelevant to my point whether it was true. You find it “refreshing” for a politician to believe lots of things that are demonstrably untrue, to the point of outright delusion? [QUOTE=aldiboronti] And, of course, to the dismay and despair of all those who thought they knew better, it actually worked. [/quote] Well, it worked on some of you. [QUOTE=aldiboronti] You may mock him, despise him, and I’m sure you all do but the fact is he is the most extraordinary candidate to run for President in a century at least. [/QUOTE] Actually, I think that title more properly belongs to [Deez Nuts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deez_Nuts_(politician)). (Who, admittedly, looks like a veritable Solon of political maturity and rationality next to Donald Trump.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/169 "2017-01-09T23:59:50Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Honest means he believed what he was saying. It’s irrelevant to my point whether it was true. He didn’t censor his words, unlike Hillary who wouldn’t let a word slip out of her mouth that hadn’t been polished by scriptwriters and practiced in front of the mirror. Trump spoke as he thought and to hell with the consequences. You have to admit that’s unusual for a politician. > > And, of course, to the dismay and despair of all those who thought they knew better, it actually worked. You may mock him, despise him, and I’m sure you all do but the fact is he is the most extraordinary candidate to run for President in a century at least. Do you think he really believed that Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii? If so, he’s profoundly stupid, considering the mountain of evidence he was born in Hawaii, and the zero evidence he was born anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/170 "2017-01-10T00:04:29Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Entertaining this as true, that’s likely because Hillary was actively beating the war drum, and Putin realizes that war benefits no one. Oh, yes. Which is why he avoids making deliberately provocative moves like invading Ukraine or shooting civilian airliners flying over Ukraine airspace out of the sky. He’s real worried about war. :rolleyes: You attribute benevolence to Putin that he has demonstrated nowhere, and to no one. The talent Putin has demonstrated is that he knows a patsy when he sees one: [“I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul.”](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1392791.stm) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/171 "2017-01-10T00:09:32Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Really? You don’t think he’ll simply deny Putin marched into the Balkans? After all, [he denied Putin is in Ukraine](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/289907-trump-incorrectly-says-russia-isnt-in-ukraine). I don’t know what he would do. Neither does Putin, which is the point. At the time Trump said that, he was being pressed on something that negatively impacted his campaign, so he responded off-the-cuff in a way most beneficial to him. That’s not an indicator of how he would react if there was actually a foreign policy crisis and his senior people apprised him of the situation. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > You bet. And that’s why Putin took personal control over the Russian disinformation campaign intended to help Trump over the hump. At this point Trump is a lot friendlier to Putin than Clinton. But if Putin was looking to do something clearly provocative to the US and was gambling that the US wouldn’t risk all out war, he’s more likely to test Clinton than Trump. Trump is a wild card. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/172 "2017-01-10T00:15:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you think he really believed that Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii? If so, he’s profoundly stupid, considering the mountain of evidence he was born in Hawaii, and the zero evidence he was born anywhere else. This is a bit of a minor quibble, and I’m not sure why I chose to bring this up on your particular post, but I’ve seen people post over and over again that there is “zero evidence” or ‘no evidence’ of Obama being born in Kenya. I present you, [some evidence](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp). Please note: I believe he is a Hawaiian-born American citizen. I just think there’s a bit more evidence than “zero”. It turns out, it’s enough to feed wild conspiracy theories. TL;DR = Please stop saying “zero evidence”. It’s factually incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![rowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@rowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowe)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/173 "2017-01-10T00:18:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is a bit of a minor quibble, and I’m not sure why I chose to bring this up on your particular post, but I’ve seen people post over and over again that there is “zero evidence” or ‘no evidence’ of Obama being born in Kenya. I present you, [some evidence](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp). > > Please note: I believe he is a Hawaiian-born American citizen. I just think there’s a bit more evidence than “zero”. It turns out, it’s enough to feed wild conspiracy theories. > > TL;DR = Please stop saying “zero evidence”. It’s factually incorrect. Umm, except in the very link that you provide, it’s proven to be a fact-checking error. So yes, there is “zero evidence.” Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/174 "2017-01-10T00:23:42Z")
> [@rowe](#): > > Umm, except in the very link that you provide, it’s proven to be a fact-checking error. So yes, there is “zero evidence.” > > Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk I get that it was a mistake, but something published in 1991 that claims he was “born in Kenya” is exactly the sort of “evidence” that contributes to a conspiracy theory about him being born in Kenya. Imagine we were to hold a trial. The prosecution presents their evidence, the defense presents theirs, and the jury decides. One side loses, the other side wins. Do you think it’s accurate to claim that the opposing side had “zero evidence” just because they lost / their evidence wasn’t as compelling? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/175 "2017-01-10T00:25:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is a bit of a minor quibble, and I’m not sure why I chose to bring this up on your particular post, but I’ve seen people post over and over again that there is “zero evidence” or ‘no evidence’ of Obama being born in Kenya. I present you, [some evidence](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp). > > Please note: I believe he is a Hawaiian-born American citizen. I just think there’s a bit more evidence than “zero”. It turns out, it’s enough to feed wild conspiracy theories. > > TL;DR = Please stop saying “zero evidence”. It’s factually incorrect. That wasn’t identified by any of the conspiracy theorists, including Trump, until years after they started spreading their fact free bullshit. So yes, for years, Trump pushed the birther bullshit with zero evidence. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/176 "2017-01-10T00:35:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That wasn’t identified by any of the conspiracy theorists, including Trump, until years after they started spreading their fact free bullshit. So yes, for years, Trump pushed the birther bullshit with zero evidence. That’s a fair point. I’m personally fuzzy on the timeline, but Wikipedia says Trump started talking about it publicly in 2011 and Breitbart didn’t publish the promotional booklet until 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/177 "2017-01-10T00:40:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > At this point Trump is a lot friendlier to Putin than Clinton. But if Putin was looking to do something clearly provocative to the US and was gambling that the US wouldn’t risk all out war, he’s more likely to test Clinton than Trump. Trump is a wild card. You really think that? I see a man who is so easily manipulated a child can do it. Witness his current Twitter spat with Meryl Streep. It’s like poking a snake with a stick: Predictably, he’s going to bite, or in Trump’s case, tweet. But somehow you think that makes him scary to Putin – a former head of the KGB who understands dissemination of propaganda and political manipulation like few others in the world – and this is why he personally worked to get Trump elected? [U.S. Intel Report: Putin directed cyber campaign to help Trump](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-cyber-idUSKBN14Q1T8). Your thought process eludes me. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/178 "2017-01-10T00:48:24Z")
Missed the edit window. Putin was not head of the KGB. Only a top Lieutenant Colonel. But you get my point, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/179 "2017-01-10T00:51:20Z")
There’s another line of thinking that Trump is the brilliant puppet-master manipulating the press into reporting / talking about what he wants, rather than some other story that would be worse for him. I don’t know if that’s what **Fotheringay-Phipps** was referring to, but it’s certainly one ‘school of thought’ around Trump’s tweets. [Here](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/08/the_art_of_journalism_in_the_age_of_trump_132735.html) is an article that touches on that thinking: > [@](#): > > Should the media treat Trump tweetstorms with the rapt attention devoted to more traditional presidential statements, or refrain from such reflexive coverage in order to avoid being distracted, perhaps intentionally, from more important matters? > > … > > Trump critics have also argued for disregarding – or at least, not constantly responding to – his tweets, on the theory that his goal is often as much to distract as it is to inform or, more likely, inflame. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307/180 "2017-01-10T00:51:50Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You really think that? I see a man who is so easily manipulated a child can do it. Witness his current Twitter spat with Meryl Streep. It’s like poking a snake with a stick: Predictably, he’s going to bite, or in Trump’s case, tweet. That’s a curious example you’ve selected there. Most people would be very leery of poking a snake with a stick. Because they don’t want to get bitten. Or bombed. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There’s another line of thinking that Trump is the brilliant puppet-master manipulating the press into reporting / talking about what he wants, rather than some other story that would be worse for him. I don’t know if that’s what **Fotheringay-Phipps** was referring to, but it’s certainly one ‘school of thought’ around Trump’s tweets. [Here](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/08/the_art_of_journalism_in_the_age_of_trump_132735.html) is an article that touches on that thinking: It’s not what I meant. He tweets like that because he’s an immature spoiled brat. Nonetheless, the practical impact of his being an immature spoiled brat who happens to control the US military would be to make others less likely to start something with him. As compared to someone else about whom they might make a calculated gamble that they would shy away from a serious MAD-type confrontation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-themselves/776307.md?page=10)