# Trump voters: explain yourselves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699 "2016-09-24T03:24:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/241 "2016-09-29T07:45:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Now suppose that Politifact said, “While InsideGov’s methods are limited to one metric, it’s undeniable that by that metric, their rating is accurate, so we rate it Mostly True.” Would that also be consistent? No, it would not, because it’s a bad metric. The use of that metric is misleading, and omitting that that’s the metric used is doubly so. Why is this hard to understand? It’s like a kid saying a painting is the best painting in the museum because it’s the most colorful. There is no definite answer to the “best” painting, and even if there were I wouldn’t be qualified to judge it, but I can say with certainty that the kid’s metric is wrong. And if I said “I heard that this painting is the best in the museum” to a stranger, my statement (directly analogous to AFF’s) would be “mostly false” on the PolitiFact scale ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/242 "2016-09-29T12:26:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Huh? > > Look, on matters like this, I have learned that if my interlocutors are willing to deny a clear example of bias between two Granny Smith apples like this, there’s zero value in exploring oranges and how they might be compared to the apples. What confuses me about how you phrased that is that, as you say, you accept the possibility of bias on your own part (and, I assume, of people who might agree with you rather than disagree). Yet, when it comes to talking about the general situation, you focus solely on what you see as defensive errors. Put another way, the problem is\* them\*, not us, even though you’ve already said that you accept there could well be bias on your own part. I mean, somewhat ironically it seems like the same kind of problem you see here; two problems of the same nature, only one of which seems to matter to the judge. People defending this seem potentially biased, so defending it is problematic. I attacking this seem potentially biased, so… I don’t mention attackers on the point as being a problem in any way. > [@](#): > > My admission of possible confirmation bias is above, and the answer to this question is: not any accumulation of statistics, but a personal recollection of finding most of Politifact’s decisions acceptably defensible on their own, but observing that the set in total is standards stricter against conservative speakers and the decision to fact-check specific statements made against conservatives more often. That’s unfortunate. I’m sure you know the issues with personal recollection over a statistical analysis, so I don’t think there’s any reason to go into them. But I for one don’t think I’d be willing to accept my own personal recollection alone, judged by my personal system, as much cop when it comes to good analysis. I have to admit this does make me probably more questioning of your personal views in the future, but then I’m sure that doesn’t matter much to you! 🙂 > [@](#): > > Yes, but even then, if the sieve produces “Mostly,” as an answer in one case, it should reliably produce “Mostly,” in a near-identical case. > > Here, the question is about the claim that InsideGov rated a congressman among the most ineffective. Talk about that claim. I accept any answer to it, because I agree it’s laden with a lack of rigor. > > BUT I cannot see how it can produce two different answers. It doesn’t, so far as I can tell. Politifact seems to be looking at two different situations, part of which each have a particular identical (~) point of contention, but which does not constitute the whole of the final judgement. The same sieves are used, among other sieves appropriate to the differing nature of the questions, and where the question is the same the sieves seem to be the same. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/243 "2016-09-29T13:21:16Z")
I guess it’s my fault for bringing up Politifact in the first place, but anyone remember when this thread was about Trump voters? Naw, me neither. I was kinda hoping that **Clothahump** was someday going to explain what felonies Mrs. Clinton was guilty of. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/244 "2016-09-29T13:33:40Z")
Parsing specific Politifact claims seems like idle masturbation. That newspaper project has no legal jurisdiction; it’s just another Internet thing. Suppose **Bricker** has found some cases where a Democrat is favored over a Republican? How do we know there aren’t many cases where the vice versa applies? And anyway, maybe Politificact is exercising _good taste_! A gourmet disgusted with a particular restaurant might find a fault with a salad he’d ignore if he liked the restaurant overall. Some of us have better uses for our time than scrutinizing misplaced commas, but we’d still like to know if Politifact is biased overall. @ **Bricker** — can you name a politician you would rank high for honesty who is ranked as largely dishonest by Politifact, or vice versa? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/245 "2016-09-29T15:33:20Z")
Maybe **Bricker** can discuss the legality of [this policy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXXaj--a6-4) proposed by Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/246 "2016-09-29T19:46:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Can you link or cite where you saw this? Some youtube video. I honestly didn’t pay it much mind because if the President wanted to launch nukes and the S of Def said no we’d have another [Saturday Night Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre). ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/247 "2016-09-29T20:11:04Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Maybe **Bricker** can discuss the legality of [this policy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXXaj--a6-4) proposed by Trump? It was upheld under _Whoosh v dasmoocher_. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/248 "2016-09-29T21:38:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > And anyway, maybe Politificact is exercising _good taste_! A gourmet disgusted with a particular restaurant might find a fault with a salad he’d ignore if he liked the restaurant overall. Yes, I suspect this is what is happening. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/249 "2016-09-29T21:42:14Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Maybe **Bricker** can discuss the legality of [this policy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXXaj--a6-4) proposed by Trump? The link goes to a YouTube posting of a “Stop and Kiss,” policy in which the NYPD will stop and kiss people without probable cause. The video does not allege it was a policy approved by Trump, but rather by former Democrat and now Independent NYV Mayor Bloomberg. And since the entire video is produced by the Onion, it fails to describe a real-life event. However, to the extent you’re interested, the policy would not be legal. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/250 "2016-09-29T21:47:49Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Parsing specific Politifact claims seems like idle masturbation. As opposed to productive masturbation? You may be in the wrong forum. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/251 "2016-09-29T22:02:44Z")
If the Ruling Class could figure a way to charge us for it, they already would have! ---
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/252 "2016-09-30T04:23:01Z")
Looking at the map of who’s leading in each state, I believe Trump has more square footage. If you’ve seen the movie “War of the Roses” you know that’s the most important thing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/253 "2016-09-30T14:55:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Someone made a good point: People don’t necessarily vote for a presidential candidate because they think he or she is good. They may think that he or she is bad, but that\* America needs to have something bad happen to it, \*for its own eventual good. Accelerationism. Like the German Communists who supported Hitler because they thought he’d make things so bad in Germany that afterwards everyone would support Communism instead. It ended poorly for them. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/254 "2016-09-30T15:16:11Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Accelerationism. Like the German Communists who supported Hitler because they thought he’d make things so bad in Germany that afterwards everyone would support Communism instead. > > It ended poorly for them. There is something to be said for razing to the ground, and rebuilding from the ashes, and there is also something to be said for just patching the leaky roof. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/255 "2016-10-01T00:49:48Z")
In my case it’s probably moot; Minnesota hasn’t given it’s electoral college votes to a Republican since 1972. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/256 "2016-10-01T04:39:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Perhaps better to discreetly ignore friend **Uke** ’s fall from grace. Maybe “flung himself” more than “fell”… My God you’re one self-absorbed motherfucker. I don’t even think you know how tired your posts get, you’re too busy posting them. The fact you’re so unaware is what makes your posts so enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/257 "2016-10-01T04:49:02Z")
Awww, it’s your very first post! That’s _adorable_! ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/258 "2016-10-01T04:50:54Z")
Yep. Couldn’t take it anymore not commenting. Congrats! ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/259 "2016-10-01T04:52:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Awww, it’s your very first post! That’s _adorable_! Hey you’re talking to none other than Mr. Hewey Trolley McSockface Logan. He comes out swinging. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/260 "2016-10-01T05:13:28Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Hey you’re talking to none other than Mr. Hewey Trolley McSockface Logan. He comes out swinging. Whatever you say Mr. White Knight sycophant. I’ve been reading here for awhile now and finally decided to post. So what. Not a shocker you immediately consider me a sock or troll though - it’s kind of standard practice around here - anyone with a dissenting opinion is considered a threat to the group-think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=14)