# Trump voters: explain yourselves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699 "2016-09-24T03:24:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/301 "2016-10-03T12:55:30Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Those are all distractions in it that it takes time from addressing the the bigger question - ie ‘Tonight one world news tonight the Republicans again accuse Obama of being Muslim. This is why they’re wrong’. Instead of ‘… Obama refuses to release his college transcripts, avoids questions regarding his voting record and participation during his term in the Senant. Tonight!’ on… whatever station. That kind of distraction. Very, very few presidential candidates or presidents have ever released college transcripts. As for avoiding questions on his voting record, and participation in the Senate, cite? Or is this more birtheresque conspiracy theory fact-free nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/302 "2016-10-03T17:28:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Very, very few presidential candidates or presidents have ever released college transcripts. On their own? Sorta kinda true. Although they get released, and more often than you’re admitting. > **[9 Presidential Candidates Who Weren't Great Students | Mental Floss](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/28826/9-presidential-candidates-who-werent-great-students)** > > © Ted Soqui/Corbis > > The Huffington Post recently released a copy of Republican presidential hopeful Rick Perry’s college transcript from Texas A&M. The academic picture wasn’t pretty. Perry struggled in some familiar classes (an F in organic... > **[Dig this: Media actually probed other candidates \* WorldNetDaily \* by WND Staff](https://www.wnd.com/2009/08/106051/)** > > ... Read more > **[Obama, Biden: Academic Transcripts and the Truth](https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2012/10/24/obamas-transcripts-biden-in-1987/)** > > By disclosing to the media last year that he had "a B-plus" GPA at Occidental College and "a 3.7" GPA at Columbia College, President Obama has put himself | The gist of those cites are that a) plenty have and b) Obama hasn’t. And the “investigative media” that got the others hasn’t ever with Obama. Even to this day when it doesn’t even matter anymore. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As for avoiding questions on his voting record, and participation in the Senate, cite? [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/02/the\_everpresent\_obama.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/02/the_everpresent_obama.html) > **[Right to Rise correct on comparison between 'worst attendance records' of...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/mar/08/right-rise/right-rise-right-raise-criticism-candidates-rubio-/)** > > A commercial by the super PAC Right to Rise USA shows a silhouette of Sen. Marco Rubio and criticizes him for his lack o It’s quite a bit to read but you did ask. I can point out what I think are the relevant points but I don’t want to post a wall of text. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/303 "2016-10-03T17:32:49Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > On their own? Sorta kinda true. Although they get released, and more often than you’re admitting. > > [9 Presidential Candidates Who Weren't Great Students | Mental Floss](http://mentalfloss.com/article/28826/9-presidential-candidates-who-werent-great-students) > [Dig this: Media actually probed other candidates \* WorldNetDaily \* by WND Staff](http://www.wnd.com/2009/08/106051/) > [http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/10/24/obamas-transcripts-biden-in-1987/](http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/10/24/obamas-transcripts-biden-in-1987/) > > The gist of those cites are that a) plenty have and b) Obama hasn’t. And the “investigative media” that got the others hasn’t ever with Obama. Even to this day when it doesn’t even matter anymore. So why is this relevant? Who cares? They didn’t spend effort on his birth certificate either since it was a made-up conspiracy theory… why is this different? By the way, WND and Breitbart always ping my antivirus, so be careful with those sites. > [@](#): > > [RealClearPolitics - Articles - The Ever-'Present' Obama](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/02/the_everpresent_obama.html) > [PolitiFact | Right to Rise correct on comparison between 'worst attendance records' of Marco Rubio, Barack Obama](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/08/right-rise/right-rise-right-raise-criticism-candidates-rubio-/) > > It’s quite a bit to read but you did ask. I can point out what I think are the relevant points but I don’t want to post a wall of text. If this is all you were saying, then carry on. I thought you were talking about some other conspiracy theory, not just “Obama missed a lot of votes”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/304 "2016-10-03T17:45:07Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > [http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/10/24/obamas-transcripts-biden-in-1987/](http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/10/24/obamas-transcripts-biden-in-1987/) Breitbart are outright liars, and should be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/305 "2016-10-03T17:49:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So why is this relevant? Who cares? They didn’t spend effort on his birth certificate either since it was a made-up conspiracy theory… why is this different? Why are you bringing in the birth certificate question? I haven’t said a thing about that. I was disagreeing with your statement that “Very, very few presidential candidates or presidents have ever released college transcripts.” Yeah they have. And if they didn’t do it themselves, the investigative reporters did it for them. Mostly when it comes to Republinans, I notice. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If this is all you were saying, then carry on. I thought you were talking about some other conspiracy theory, not just “Obama missed a lot of votes”. It’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s asking about his votes during his term and his reluctance to explain his votes or the position he was taking, then. It’s vague and non-committal. Like it was designed to keep his positions quieter the closer he got to the election. Or his presumed run at it. Hillary’s the one that brought that up. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/306 "2016-10-03T17:55:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Breitbart are outright liars, and should be ignored. I got it from here - [where can i find a list of Presidents that have released their college - Democratic Underground](http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1973329) - Edited to correct that I shouldn’t be answering Der Trish. I meant to answer “By the way, WND and Breitbart always ping my antivirus, so be careful with those sites” said by iiandyiiii. I only saw after I posted it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/307 "2016-10-03T18:32:50Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Why are you bringing in the birth certificate question? I haven’t said a thing about that. I was disagreeing with your statement that “Very, very few presidential candidates or presidents have ever released college transcripts.” > > Yeah they have. And if they didn’t do it themselves, the investigative reporters did it for them. Mostly when it comes to Republinans, I notice. No, I was correct. More than very few have had transcripts leaked or otherwise found by the press, but very few released them of their own volition. But I still don’t see the relevance. He’s been President for almost 8 years – that tells us what kind of President he is. There’s absolutely no reason to believe there is anything in his transcripts that would tell us anything at all. > [@](#): > > It’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s asking about his votes during his term and his reluctance to explain his votes or the position he was taking, then. It’s vague and non-committal. Like it was designed to keep his positions quieter the closer he got to the election. Or his presumed run at it. > > Hillary’s the one that brought that up. So you mean a politician sometimes gave vague and non-committal answers on questions from the press? Alert the media! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/308 "2016-10-03T19:17:05Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > No, what times the calls/texts/emails were made. That’s all. > > It’s public information, isn’t it? > > If not why not. > > I know. Those fuckers. They should be fired for how they fucked that up. Can we keep him to play with? Please? I don’t think we’ve ever had one _this_ stupid. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/309 "2016-10-03T20:39:07Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > … Mostly when it comes to Republinans, I notice… Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/310 "2016-10-03T21:08:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Breitbart are outright liars, and should be ignored. So is Hillary. Yet she’s going to be president. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/311 "2016-10-03T21:13:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So is Hillary. Yet she’s going to be president. In the sense that all politicians stretch the truth, yes. But her opponent (as I assume you would admit) takes lying to an absolute ludicrous extreme. Actually, he’s not so much a liar as he is a Bullshit Artist; someone who will tell you want he thinks you want to hear, so that you’ll buy something from him/do something he wants. And is fully capable of telling the next person something entirely different if that’s what he thinks will get him what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/312 "2016-10-03T21:18:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Prove it. Trump has his is out there now. Or so it looks. George W had his. Bush Sr… Reagan. Obama… nah. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/313 "2016-10-03T21:19:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Actually, he’s not so much a liar as he is a **Bullshit Artist** ; someone who will tell you want he thinks you want to hear, so that you’ll buy something from him/do something he wants. And is fully capable of telling the next person something entirely different if that’s what he thinks will get him what he wants. [my bold] [The unbearable stench of Trump’s B.S.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-unbearable-stench-of-trumps-bs/2016/08/04/aa5d2798-5a6e-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html?utm_term=.af7fe0011392) > [@](#): > > Harry Frankfurt, an eminent moral philosopher and former professor at Princeton, wrote a brilliant essay in 1986 called “On Bullshit.” (Frankfurt himself wrote about Trump in this vein, as have Jeet Heer and Eldar Sarajlic.) In the essay, Frankfurt distinguishes crucially between lies and B.S.: “Telling a lie is an act with a sharp focus. It is designed to insert a particular falsehood at a specific point. . . . In order to invent a lie at all, [the teller of a lie] must think he knows what is true.” > > But someone engaging in B.S., Frankfurt says, “is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all . . . except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with what he says.” Frankfurt writes that the B.S.-er’s “focus is panoramic rather than particular” and that he has “more spacious opportunities for improvisation, color, and imaginative play. This is less a matter of craft than of art. Hence the familiar notion of the ‘bullshit artist.’ ” > > This has been Trump’s mode all his life. He boasts — and boasts and boasts — about his business, his buildings, his books, his wives. Much of it is a concoction of hyperbole and falsehoods. And when he’s found out, he’s like that guy we have all met at a bar who makes wild claims but when confronted with the truth, quickly responds, “I knew that!” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/314 "2016-10-03T21:51:31Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Trump has his is out there now. Or so it looks. George W had his. Bush Sr… Reagan. > > Obama… nah. But that’s not what you said, buckaroo! Allow me to remind… > [@](#): > > …And if they didn’t do it themselves, the investigative reporters did it for them. Mostly when it comes to Republinans, I notice… Working in the insinuation that “investigative reporters” have it in for Republicans. Which I am doubting you can prove. Seeing as how any one who actually released his college transcript would not be so investigated, now would they? You were trying to pull a slow one, just didn’t feel like letting you get away with. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/315 "2016-10-04T03:28:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So is Hillary. By not \*nearly \*the same degree; that’s standard pro-Republican false equivalence. Spouting “they all do it” about something while hoping nobody notices or mentions that the Republicans are much, much, _much_ worse. And Trump is outright pathological in his dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/316 "2016-10-04T03:50:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > In the sense that all politicians stretch the truth, yes. > > But her opponent (as I assume you would admit) takes lying to an absolute ludicrous extreme. > > Actually, he’s not so much a liar as he is a Bullshit Artist; someone who will tell you want he thinks you want to hear, so that you’ll buy something from him/do something he wants. And is fully capable of telling the next person something entirely different if that’s what he thinks will get him what he wants. I have a slightly different take. Both Trump and Clinton are unrepentant liars and I don’t see either one as “more honest,” in the sense of fidelity to truth for truth’s sake. But Clinton is generally practical: she’ll lie if she thinks it will help her but is able to realistically judge outcomes and confirm her conduct to accepted political norms. She’ll lie, in other words, the way most politicos lie, and she’ll act in a way that’s cynically calculated to advantage her and her party. Trump has no such limits. He’ll lie and flout accepted political norms. His lies are unselfconscious and meglomaniacal. Clinton is at the low end of regular political weasels and their lies. Trump is on another fucking planet. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/317 "2016-10-04T16:39:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Working in the insinuation that “investigative reporters” have it in for Republicans. Which I am doubting you can prove. I don’t know how I can prove an observation, outside of what there is to see - Republicans have released more transcripts (or had them released) then the Democrats have. Obama’s being the most glaringly obvious. I don’t see the fervor of the press to go after Obama’s as I do or did see with Palin, for example. Or GWB. Or Trump. Those are scrutinized to the hilt while Obama we’re just supposed to take his word for it. Maybe that’s a better way of saying it. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/318 "2016-10-04T17:09:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, I was correct. More than very few have had transcripts leaked or otherwise found by the press, but very few released them of their own volition. > > But I still don’t see the relevance. He’s been President for almost 8 years – that tells us what kind of President he is. There’s absolutely no reason to believe there is anything in his transcripts that would tell us anything at all. Regarding your last point, exactly. So release them then. Who cares? To me it shows a bias. Or at least a double-standard in that his aren’t out by now. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you mean a politician sometimes gave vague and non-committal answers on questions from the press? Alert the media! No, that Obama during his senate term went out his way to not only not take a stance on anything, but that he went he went out of his way to avoid it - ie his “Present” votes. Especially as it became more apparent he would make a run for President. Come out and say what you think. Say what position you side with. Quit trying to play it safe for the sake of votes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/319 "2016-10-04T17:29:20Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Regarding your last point, exactly. So release them then. Who cares? > > To me it shows a bias. Or at least a double-standard in that his aren’t out by now. What would he have to gain by it? No one cares anymore except birthers. > [@](#): > > No, that Obama during his senate term went out his way to not only not take a stance on anything, but that he went he went out of his way to avoid it - ie his “Present” votes. Especially as it became more apparent he would make a run for President. Come out and say what you think. Say what position you side with. Quit trying to play it safe for the sake of votes. A reasonable (if rather insignificant) criticism of a presidential candidate, and one that I remember being made many times. The public deemed it not disqualifying and sufficiently approved of Obama to elect and re-elect him. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/320 "2016-10-04T17:43:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What would he have to gain by it? No one cares anymore except birthers. Kind of an odd statement, but OK. I care about his transcript. And I’m glad he released his birth certificate. If anything it shut down the discussion about it except with the most extreme people pursuing it That is once it was shown I believe it. Case closed. The other people who are currently on the issue, still? Fuck 'em. It’s not what I believe anymore. I don’t understand why he waited though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=17)