# Trump voters: explain yourselves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699 "2016-09-24T03:24:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/361 "2016-10-04T22:22:42Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > So, why hasn’t Hillary released her birth certificate? What is she hiding? That she was born in 1633, and is effectively immortal. She can only defeat the republican for good by lopping off his head. The last debate should be a corker. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/362 "2016-10-04T23:59:10Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone (as it then was) in 1936. Does this make him a “natural-born citizen” under the Constitution? I never heard anybody even raise the issue when he was running against Obama. Actually, because of a peculiarity of the law\* in effect in the Canal Zone at the time, John McCain was not a citizen at birth even though he was born to two US citizen parents. The law was changed a year after his birth and he retroactively became a US citizen. So there is a lot more question about whether McCain was a “natural born” US citizen than Obama. [The question did arise during the election but didn’t get much traction.](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html) Whatever the case, McCain is legally a citizen of Panama, since Panama grants citizenship to anyone born in the Canal Zone. \*Mere birth in the Canal Zone did not confer US citizenship, since it was technically Panamanian territory although under US jurisdiction. At the time the law granted citizenship to children of US citizen parents born “outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States.” The Canal Zone was outside the limits of the US, but within its jurisdiction, so the law did not cover McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/363 "2016-10-05T00:00:49Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I think I remember a bipartisan resolution saying it was the sense of Congress that McCain was qualified, but I’d have to look it up. It definitely came up, but not in a hostile way. Congress voted to affirm that McCain was qualified as a natural born US citizen, but that would have had no standing constitutionally. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/364 "2016-10-05T00:04:55Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I know he served in the military. I assume he had to be a citizen to do that. You don’t need to be a citizen to serve in the US military, just a legal resident. > [@](#): > > In terms of Obama it was because his father was Kenyan and not much was known about him and/or how the effected the qualification of Obama (in terms of requirements to hold that office). > > It was murky when it didn’t need to be. It wasn’t the least bit murky. Anyone born in US territory is a US citizen, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. The nationality of Obama’s father had zero effect on his citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/365 "2016-10-05T00:11:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You don’t need to be a citizen to serve in the US military, just a legal resident. > > It wasn’t the least bit murky. Anyone born in **US territory** is a US citizen, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. The nationality of Obama’s father had zero effect on his citizenship. You just _had_ to open that can of worms again, didn’t you? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/366 "2016-10-05T00:28:00Z")
Technically isn’t the world a “US territory”? You know, since we are so awesome and better than everyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/367 "2016-10-05T00:31:22Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You just _had_ to open that can of worms again, didn’t you? > 😃 Ok, a US state, incorporated territory, or unincorporated territory except for American Samoa. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/368 "2016-10-05T00:56:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It wasn’t the least bit murky. Anyone born in US territory is a US citizen, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. The nationality of Obama’s father had zero effect on his citizenship. Something made it a question. Enough that the Clinton campaign brought it up back then - “The allegation about Obama’s birthplace tracks back to the bruising 2008 Democratic primary between Obama and Clinton. According to a Telegraph article, as early as April 2008, a Clinton supporter passed around an email that questioned where Obama was born.” > **[Did Hillary Clinton start the Obama birther movement?](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/sep/23/donald-trump/hillary-clinton-obama-birther-fact-check/)** > > Call it ricochet politics. First, a questioner at a New Hampshire rally for Donald Trump repeats the lie that President > [@Colibri](#): > > You don’t need to be a citizen to serve in the US military, just a legal resident. Awesome. Then both sides agree he is an American. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/369 "2016-10-05T01:15:22Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Something made it a question. Enough that the Clinton campaign brought it up back then - “The allegation about Obama’s birthplace tracks back to the bruising 2008 Democratic primary between Obama and Clinton. According to a Telegraph article, as early as April 2008, a Clinton supporter passed around an email that questioned where Obama was born.” > > [PolitiFact | Did Hillary Clinton start the Obama birther movement?](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/23/donald-trump/hillary-clinton-obama-birther-fact-check/) > > Awesome. Then both sides agree he is an American. The Clinton campaign did _not_ bring it back up again. From your cite. > [@](#): > > **There is no record that Clinton herself or anyone within her campaign ever advanced the charge that Obama was not born in the United States.** A review by our fellow fact-checkers at [Factcheck.org](http://Factcheck.org) reported that no journalist who investigated this ever found a connection to anyone in the Clinton organization. > > Clinton, herself, answered this very accusation after Trump’s tweet during an interview with CNN’s Don Lemon. Lemon asked Clinton if she started smear campaigns that Obama was born outside the United States. > > “That is – no. That is so ludicrous, Don. You know, honestly, I just believe that, first of all, it’s totally untrue, and secondly, you know, the president and I have never had any kind of confrontation like that,” Clinton said. “You know, I have been blamed for nearly everything, that was a new one to me.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/370 "2016-10-05T01:24:02Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Something made it a question. Enough that the Clinton campaign brought it up back then - “The allegation about Obama’s birthplace tracks back to the bruising 2008 Democratic primary between Obama and Clinton. According to a Telegraph article, as early as April 2008, a Clinton supporter passed around an email that questioned where Obama was born.” > > [PolitiFact | Did Hillary Clinton start the Obama birther movement?](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/23/donald-trump/hillary-clinton-obama-birther-fact-check/) Read your own fucking link, you fuckwit. It says specifically that the Clinton campaign did _not_ bring it up. > [@](#): > > There is no record that Clinton herself or anyone within her campaign ever advanced the charge that Obama was not born in the United States. A review by our fellow fact-checkers at [Factcheck.org](http://Factcheck.org) reported that no journalist who investigated this ever found a connection to anyone in the Clinton organization. > [@](#): > > But Trump, and others who have made this claim, neglect to mention that there is no direct tie to Clinton or her 2008 campaign. > [@](#): > > Trump goes on to completely distort the chain of events by claiming Clinton “was all in” on the birther movement. Most of the talk started after Clinton suspended her presidential campaign. > [@](#): > > We rate this claim False. In contrast, Trump himself himself spread the birther nonsense for years. > [@](#): > > Awesome. Then both sides agree he is an American. What are you talking about? This doesn’t follow from the quote you posted. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/371 "2016-10-05T01:27:29Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The Clinton campaign did _not_ bring it back up again. My bad. From the same cite > [@](#): > > It’s an interesting bit of history that the birther movement appears to have begun with Democrats supporting Clinton and opposing Obama. But Trump, and others who have made this claim, neglect to mention that there is no direct tie to Clinton or her 2008 campaign. > > The story appears to have started with supporters of Clinton, an important distinction. So it was her supporters, not Clinton, who brought it up. Point remains it was an issue, and not one solely made up by Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/372 "2016-10-05T01:30:29Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > So it was her supporters, not Clinton, who brought it up. Point remains it was an issue, and not one solely made up by Republicans. There are idiots in both parties. But it was Republican leaders who promoted it as an issue. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/373 "2016-10-05T01:32:22Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Read your own fucking link, you fuckwit. It says specifically that the Clinton campaign did _not_ bring it up. Calling someone a motherfucker is right out, but a mod calling a poster a fuckwit is just fine? Alrighty then. > [@Colibri](#): > > What are you talking about? This doesn’t follow from the quote you posted. Not to the quote per se but to the overall point of why McCain’s birthplace wasn’t an issue and Obama’s was. You didn’t get that out of the above? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/374 "2016-10-05T01:37:50Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Calling someone a motherfucker is right out, but a mod calling a poster a fuckwit is just fine? > > Alrighty then. > > Not to the quote per se but to the overall point of why McCain’s birthplace wasn’t an issue and Obama’s was. > > You didn’t get that out of the above? Obama’s birthplace was Hawaii. A State. There was no (real) issue. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/375 "2016-10-05T01:43:42Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Obama’s birthplace was Hawaii. A State. There was no (real) issue. Have I said I don’t believe that now? Honest to God. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/376 "2016-10-05T03:36:23Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Calling someone a motherfucker is right out, but a mod calling a poster a fuckwit is just fine? I’m posting here as a poster, not a mod. If I were posting as a mod, I would say so. Fuckwit. > [@](#): > > Alrighty then. I’m glad we agree. > [@](#): > > Not to the quote per se but to the overall point of why McCain’s birthplace wasn’t an issue and Obama’s was. > > You didn’t get that out of the above? No, what you posted doesn’t make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/377 "2016-10-05T03:52:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > No, what you posted doesn’t make any sense. The question or comment I was responding to earlier was why McCain’s history wasn’t as much of an issue as Obama’s was - because nobody questioned McCain, many did with Obama. Even the Democrats. It wasn’t \ racism. Unless a load of Democrats are racists. > [@Colibri](#): > > I’m posting here as a poster, not a mod. If I were posting as a mod, I would say so. I see. You’re just setting the tone. Nice! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/378 "2016-10-05T04:03:39Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > The question or comment I was responding to earlier was why McCain’s history wasn’t as much of an issue as Obama’s was - because nobody questioned McCain, many did with Obama. Even the Democrats. It wasn’t \ racism. > > Unless a load of Democrats are racists. The comment of mine you were responding to had nothing to do with any of that. Your response was a non sequitur. And the lame “both sides do it” excuse doesn’t wash, because it was done much more, and at much higher levels, by Republicans. > [@](#): > > I see. You’re just setting the tone. Nice! Look, you pinhead, you’re in the Pit. Complaining about people insulting you here is the mark of a total weenie. If you don’t want to be insulted, either 1) don’t act like a fuckwit - probably not a feasible strategy for you; or 2) _stay out of the fucking Pit._ ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/379 "2016-10-05T04:08:14Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > The question or comment I was responding to earlier was why McCain’s history wasn’t as much of an issue as Obama’s was - because nobody questioned McCain, many did with Obama. Why can’t one damn birther ever just say “you were right; he was born in Hawaii all along and we spent years hounding him on something that never should have come up in the first place”? But no; lots of people said it was an issue, so it was an issue, so we were right to make it an issue. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/380 "2016-10-05T04:15:45Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The comment of mine you were responding to had nothing to do with any of that. Your response was a non sequitur. > > And the lame “both sides do it” excuse doesn’t wash, because it was done much more, and at much higher levels, by Republicans. Holy fucking irony Batman. I was simply saying groups and people who were asking for Obama’s record came from both sides, not just the Republicans (who if they were the only one’s to question, you’d easily ignore as partisan). And because of that it became something he had to answer. Not many came out and questioned McCain. When they did they were rightfully dismissed. When Obama finally revealed his long form, a long time after he could have released it and made it a non-issue, the issue’s dropped by pretty much everyone now. > [@Colibri](#): > > Look, you pinhead, you’re in the Pit. Complaining about people insulting you here is the jerk of a total weenie. If you don’t want to be insulted, either 1) don’t act like a fuckwit - probably not a feasible strategy for you; or 2) _stay out of the fucking Pit._ Then fine - go fuck yourself you holier than thou self-righteous prick. If you weren’t a mod I wouldn’t pay any attention to you. I’ll try that from now on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=20)