# Trump voters: explain yourselves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699 "2016-09-24T03:24:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/401 "2016-10-06T03:14:39Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > All you needed to know was that the Bush Administration, with access to investigative channels exceeding even those of Trump and Arpaio, provided nominee Obama millions of dollars worth of Secret Service protection, and did not pull an October surprise on him. I don’t think it was the Bush administration that gave Obama SS protection. Or were charged with investigating his past and qualifications. I still wonder who that’s left up to. The press? And if it’s not the press, who? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/402 "2016-10-06T03:30:45Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I don’t think it was the Bush administration that gave Obama SS protection. Or were charged with investigating his past and qualifications. > > I still wonder who that’s left up to. The press? > > And if it’s not the press, who? > > Just curious. Donald Trump. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/403 "2016-10-06T03:36:11Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > We? > > The board? The mods? Who? Many of the people participating in this thread. I have no idea why you would think it pertained to the mods, except for the fact that you are exceedingly dim. > [@](#): > > Regarding “something only a fuckwit would bring up”, I hope you include the Democrats who initially questioned his credentials into that equation. Sure. But so what? You’re here and they’re not. And you’re still trying to justify your own fuckwittery at the time, and they’re not. > [@](#): > > And regarding this whole line of questioning, it was a small (very small) point of a larger comment I was making. The rest of it has gone ignored. Which is cool. It’s probably just as well, since it was undoubtedly just as stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/404 "2016-10-06T03:37:18Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Just curious. No, just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/405 "2016-10-06T03:41:54Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Before that? Sounds like it was. No, it wasn’t. Really, try basing your knowledge on [actual facts](http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-started-birther-movement/) sometimes, instead of trying to infer it from vaguely remembered unsubstantiated allegations. To recap the facts: Conservative media started the Obama-not-US-born rumor around March of 2008, after which some Clinton supporters (not Clinton herself or her campaign staff), as well as a lot of conservatives, helped spread it around. In early June 2008 Obama made public a scan of his (entirely valid) birth certificate attesting that he was born in Hawaii. In July 2008, a blogger posted a reproduction of Obama’s birth announcement in a Honolulu newspaper. At which point, it became apparent that the whole rumor was too thoroughly debunked for anyone but a conservative to go on believing it. Since when, Democrats have ignored the whole ridiculous “birther” conspiracy movement except as an opportunity to point and laugh at the credulity, ignorance, and racism of the conservatives who still considered it plausible for years afterward. > [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I was and am saying that it was an issue that was brought up that could have quickly been dismissed. But it wasn’t, for all kinds of reasons and from every political party, not just the racist Republicans. In fact, as I noted, it **was** quickly dismissed by Democrats and other liberals, who tend to respect factual evidence and logical arguments more than their modern Republican/conservative counterparts. [QUOTE=HeweyLogan] Regarding “something only a fuckwit would bring up”, I hope you include the Democrats who initially questioned his credentials into that equation. [/quote] In the first place, there’s a substantial difference between initially **questioning** the citizenship credentials of someone who had a non-citizen father and lived overseas for part of his childhood, and **continuing to doubt** that person’s established citizenship credentials **a full three years** after they had been fully and publicly established by factual evidence. So trying to hide behind the skirts of some Democrats from 2008 to justify your feeble and disingenuous false-equivalence argument isn’t making you look any less stupid and credulous. It just makes even somewhat stupid and credulous Democrats (the only kind who even fleetingly took “birther” rumors seriously) look smart and skeptical compared to you. In the second place, what **Colibri** is calling you a fuckwit for is your bringing up the birther conspiracy _now_, not for having initially found it plausible eight years ago. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/406 "2016-10-06T03:47:49Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Donald Trump. Duh. Really? Huh. I didn’t know it was up to citizens with money and exposure to vet presidential candidates. > [@Colibri](#): > > You’re here and they’re not. And you’re still trying to justify your own fuckwittery at the time, and they’re not. You’re right. I should just quickly change my position and hope nobody notices. Like Hillary does. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/407 "2016-10-06T03:48:09Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I don’t think it was the Bush administration that gave Obama SS protection. Or were charged with investigating his past and qualifications. > > I still wonder who that’s left up to. The press? > > And if it’s not the press, who? > > Just curious. This is how people become vulnerable to silly conspiracy theories: they sit around helplessly “wondering” about easily determined facts, instead of going to the minimal trouble of actually finding them out. Unsurprisingly, this information is readily available at [secretservice.gov](http://www.secretservice.gov/about/faqs/): > [@](#): > > Under 18 U.S.C.’ 3056(a)(7), “[m]ajor Presidential and Vice Presidental candidates,” as identified by the Secretary of Homeland Security, are eligible for Secret Service protection. The Secretary of Homeland Security, by the way, is a member of the President’s Cabinet. So yes, it **was** in fact the Bush administration that gave Obama SS protection as a Presidential candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/408 "2016-10-06T03:52:16Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > No, it wasn’t. Really, try basing your knowledge on [actual facts](http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-started-birther-movement/) sometimes, instead of trying to infer it from vaguely remembered unsubstantiated allegations. > > To recap the facts: Conservative media started the Obama-not-US-born rumor around March of 2008, after which some Clinton supporters (not Clinton herself or her campaign staff), as well as a lot of conservatives, helped spread it around. I never even heard this rumor. The thing supposedly said by Clinton supporters (and not yet verified) seems to clearly be a reference to Obama partially growing up in Indonesia, among _gasp_ Muslims, and thus not being truly American. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/409 "2016-10-06T03:52:18Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > You’re right. I should just quickly change my position and hope nobody notices. > > Like Hillary does. Or you could just try not being a fuckwit. But as I said, that strategy appears not to be open to you. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/410 "2016-10-06T03:53:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > In the second place, what **Colibri** is calling you a fuckwit for is your bringing up the birther conspiracy _now_, not for having initially found it plausible eight years ago. I was talking about it in the past, as an example of a larger point that could have been made in the [breathless] past. Look and pay attention. Dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/411 "2016-10-06T03:57:56Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I was talking about it in the past, as an example of a larger point that could have been made in the [breathless] past. Look and pay attention. > > Dumbass. You were a fuckwit for believing it in the past. We are paying attention. What we are seeing is a fuckwit who doesn’t know when to quit digging. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/412 "2016-10-06T04:03:00Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You were a fuckwit for believing it in the past. Is Hillary a “fuckwit” for believing things in the past? Like being against gay marriage? The Trans-Pacific Partnership? If she can be wrong about those things why can’t I be regarding Obama’s eligibility back when it was an issue? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/413 "2016-10-06T04:03:05Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I was talking about it in the past, as an example of a larger point that could have been made in the [breathless] past. That doesn’t make you look any less stupid, given how blindingly obvious it rapidly became _even back then_ that the birther conspiracy was nonsense. To repeat: It was Republicans who originally came up with the “birther” allegations, and Republicans who clung to them even after Democrats and other sensible people had quickly discovered that they were ridiculous bullshit. Everything we’ve found out about Obama since 2008 just confirms that the summer 2008 debunking of the “birther” rumor was complete, accurate and valid. The more you continue to insist that you were right not to believe the (accurate) 2008 debunking, the dumber you look. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/414 "2016-10-06T04:11:31Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Really? > > Huh. > > I didn’t know it was up to citizens with money and exposure to vet presidential candidates. That’s was Trump the Patriot going above and beyond his civic for the good of all Americans. It makes him a yuuuuge patriot! The best patriot ever! He has more patriotism in his tiny little finger than the entire Democratic Party, who just believed Obama, because they wanted to be ruled by a foreign-born, gay, Muslim. This is your belief, right? I dare you to call Donald Trump unpatriotic! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/415 "2016-10-06T04:12:55Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Is Hillary a “fuckwit” for believing things in the past? > > Like being against gay marriage? The Trans-Pacific Partnership? > > If she can be wrong about those things why can’t I be regarding Obama’s eligibility back when it was an issue? See, even if these comparisons were valid, which they aren’t, trying to justify your own stupidity by claiming other people were also stupid is the mark of a true weenie. You are responsible for your own stupidity. The fact that other people might have been stupid in no way excuses it. That’s something you just don’t get. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/416 "2016-10-06T04:29:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The fact that other people might have been stupid in no way excuses it. That’s something you just don’t get. I have to own it but Hillary gets a pass. Got it! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/417 "2016-10-06T04:39:55Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I have to own it but Hillary gets a pass. > > Got it! Hillary has absolutely nothing to do with whether you’re a fuckwit or not. Now you’re just being pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/418 "2016-10-06T04:41:30Z")
And why the fuck are you so desperate to get a “pass” from us? ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/419 "2016-10-06T06:07:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Hillary has absolutely nothing to do with whether you’re a fuckwit or not… You’re not even trying to get the point I was making, are you? I’m adding these reasons to why I’m not voting for Hillary. Make up your own shit on why I think why - you’re doing a great job of it. Twisting shit. Me? Not way I can vote for her. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/420 "2016-10-06T06:14:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > And why the fuck are you so desperate to get a “pass” from us? “Us” again. Really? This place is a rally place. It has nothing to do with discussion, or thoughts counter to your own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=22)