# Trump voters: explain yourselves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699 "2016-09-24T03:24:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/541 "2016-10-19T04:44:21Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Yes, to some extent. > > Some guy at the Daily Kos says it better than I can > > **“It has become increasingly clear to me that HRC’s pursuit of the White House has less to do with the welfare of American Society and everything to do with one person’s relentless desire to obtain high office… From serving on WalMart’s board, to tolerating her husband’s infidelities, to trading government favors for Clinton Foundation donations, her rise has been marked by Machiavellian maneuvers.”** > > [Hillary Clinton's Blind Ambition](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/02/24/1490368/-Hillary-Clinton-s-Blind-Ambition) > > I couldn’t agree more. > > No, I don’t think he only wants to be on TV, or sell water and ties, a characterization your side desperately wants to promote. I think he’s in it for the right cause - he believes we’re headed in a direction that he can change. And so far, he’s changing things. In a way I can live with. Even if, and that’s a big IF, he actually wants to change things up, I seriously do not think he is competent to do so. And these changes he claims to want to make seem ridiculous and bigoted/racist/xenophobic/sexist and all the rest. And you think that those are the “right cause”? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/542 "2016-10-19T04:46:04Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Some guy at the Daily Kos says it better than I can > > **“It has become increasingly clear to me that HRC’s pursuit of the White House has less to do with the welfare of American Society and everything to do with one person’s relentless desire to obtain high office… From serving on WalMart’s board, to tolerating her husband’s infidelities, to trading government favors for Clinton Foundation donations, her rise has been marked by Machiavellian maneuvers.”** > > [Hillary Clinton's Blind Ambition](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/02/24/1490368/-Hillary-Clinton-s-Blind-Ambition). I believe that Clinton’s blind ambition would cause her to risk a high chance of defeat in the national election rather than abandon her last chance at the White House. She should withdraw from the race and allow Sanders or Elizabeth Warren to be the nominee. This would be her greatest gift to the nation that she repeatedly promises to serve: avoiding a ruinous Republican presidency. This guy clearly knows what he’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/543 "2016-10-19T04:50:02Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > No, I don’t think he only wants to be on TV, or sell water and ties, a characterization your side desperately wants to promote. I think he’s in it for the right cause - he believes we’re headed in a direction that he can change. And so far, he’s changing things. In a way I can live with. Well, at least to live in places that are not close to sea water. Or close to dry areas, or places that will have to deal with more refugees if not much is done to control emissions. The change Trump wants is no change at all, and he will end up accelerating the damage. > **[When Dinosaurs Ruled the EPA](https://www.newsweek.com/2016/10/14/donald-trump-epa-myron-ebell-climate-change-505546.html)** > > If Donald Trump gets into the White House, "global warming" could magically disappear. > [@](#): > > When the pope wrote in an encyclical last year that the Earth is “among the most abandoned and maltreated of the poor,” Myron Ebell immediately saw that as an opportunity to attack. The Vatican “seems to have forgotten” that “putting the world on an energy-starvation diet will consign billions of people to perpetual energy poverty,” Ebell wrote in a blog post for the Competitive Enterprise Institute. Global warming might be bad, he added, but “global warming policies…will almost certainly be catastrophic.” > > Ebell, the director of the Center for Energy and Environment at the Competitive Enterprise Institute and a prominent climate-change skeptic, was chosen at the end of September to head the Environmental Protection Agency’s transition team if Donald Trump is elected president. That does not necessarily mean he would have a role in a Trump EPA, but at the very least, he would be able to populate the EPA with officials who share his views and those of Trump, who hasn’t made the environment an issue in his campaign but does offer goals and proposals on his campaign website. His plans are listed under a tab that says “Energy.” There is no “Environment” tab. And his proposals have far more to do with boosting energy production than with conservation. It says nothing about greenhouse gas emissions. > [@](#): > > The Trump campaign also appointed an energy lobbyist, Mike McKenna, to work on transition in the Energy Department, and David Bernhardt, a former Bush Interior Department official, to lead the Interior Department’s transition team. McKenna has served in the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality and the federal government, according to his website. Bernhardt is a lawyer who has represented mining and energy companies. > > The Obama administration has taken steps to limit global warming emissions, especially during its second term. In addition to crafting the Clean Air Plan, it has moved to clean up the nation’s water, limit mercury emissions from power plants and set tough mileage goals for cars and trucks. > > Trump, with the eager assistance of Ebell and other climate change skeptics, could make major changes at the EPA, says Goldston. “A Trump administration can do substantial harm,” he says. “We need additional steps, and they would not take those. But they can try to undo all the progress that occurred during the Obama administration.” > > A central talking point of Trump’s campaign is to adopt policies that will lift restrictions on industry and create jobs, which is much easier to do if global warming concerns are dismissed. What Trump and his advisers fail to see is that revamping the fossil fuel industry could both create jobs and ease climate change. > > Trump takes a less nuanced view. His energy policy, his website says, “will unleash an energy revolution that will bring vast new wealth to our country.” Provided it isn’t underwater. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/544 "2016-10-19T04:53:08Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I’m not sure how that lumpy quote got there…weird. Feel free to ignore that part. > [@raventhief](#): > > Incidentally that happened to me earlier, too. Was it the same quote from Lumpy? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/545 "2016-10-19T05:20:49Z")
I’m attending a “Should Trump be president?” debate in a few hours time. I signed up for this event a couple of weeks ago thinking it would be funny – there were plenty of Trump supporters here in China, just like there are plenty of Putin fans, so they’d actually be people supporting the answer “yes”. But disgust over the tapes, and insults of women, has been as strong here as anywhere, and combined with the accusations of vote-rigging, many shake their heads and say it shows that democracy in general, and American democracy in particular, is fatally flawed. The thought occurs What if I have to be on the Trump side, just because someone has to? I’d have nothing, right, other than “Hillary’s _much_ worse. Emails, people, emails!!”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/546 "2016-10-19T05:44:35Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Some guy at the Daily Kos says it better than I can > **“It has become increasingly clear to me that HRC’s pursuit of the White House has less to do with the welfare of American Society and everything to do with one person’s relentless desire to obtain high office… From serving on WalMart’s board, to tolerating her husband’s infidelities, to trading government favors for Clinton Foundation donations, her rise has been marked by Machiavellian maneuvers.”** > > [Hillary Clinton's Blind Ambition](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/02/24/1490368/-Hillary-Clinton-s-Blind-Ambition) > > I couldn’t agree more. An anonymous hit piece [from someone who does nothing but.](http://www.dailykos.com/user/ANKOSS) Not impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/547 "2016-10-19T05:57:16Z")
It astounds me how simple many people believe the job of president to be. As if stating, ‘I want to do this…’ is all it takes. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/548 "2016-10-19T06:03:49Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I’m attending a “Should Trump be president?” debate in a few hours time. > > […] > > The thought occurs What if I have to be on the Trump side, just because someone has to? I’d have nothing, right, other than “Hillary’s _much_ worse. Emails, people, emails!!”? Do it all sarcastically or tongue in cheek. Actually make the arguments that Trump and his supporters make, inherently pointing out how dumb they are. Or, if you could swing it, I guess you could point out the similarities to Trumpism and the Chinese government. Trump is definitely not democratic. (Maybe that sounds like a better idea in my head.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/549 "2016-10-19T06:34:20Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I think he’s in it for the right cause - he believes we’re headed in a direction that he can change. And so far, he’s changing things. In a way I can live with. Since he has no record of public service _at all_, you’d have to just take his word for it. For what it’s worth, you almost certainly _can_ live with it - Trump is not _too_ likely to preside over secession (like James Buchanan) or go to the brink of World War III (like JFK), so the U.S. will probably be more-or-less the same shape after his administration. I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/550 "2016-10-19T08:18:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Or, if you could swing it, I guess you could point out the similarities to Trumpism and the Chinese government. Trump is definitely not democratic. (Maybe that sounds like a better idea in my head.) Well I can do it as both a joke and referencing China / Chinese government. Start with: “At the risk of reinforcing stereotypes, you guys like building walls, right…?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/551 "2016-10-19T08:54:58Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Was it the same quote from Lumpy? No it was a different random quote from earlier in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/552 "2016-10-19T12:57:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, electing a woman as president certainly is a change, I’ll give you that. If she’s elected President, unlike many on the left if Trump gets elected, I’ll live with it. A lot like I did with Obama. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > And these changes he claims to want to make seem ridiculous and bigoted/racist/xenophobic/sexist and all the rest. And you think that those are the “right cause”? Of course not. But I don’t buy into your premise that he’s a bigot, racists, xenophobic, or sexist. If I did I wouldn’t vote for him. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > An anonymous hit piece [from someone who does nothing but.](http://www.dailykos.com/user/ANKOSS) Not impressed. I know. You’re only impressed with those that agree with you and your ego. I happened to think he explained the feeling about her running for President (and her actions leading up to that) better than I could have. > [@Sitnam](#): > > It astounds me how simple many people believe the job of president to be. As if stating, ‘I want to do this…’ is all it takes. It astounds me how many Democrats feel the same way about running and growing a business. ‘You didn’t build that’. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/553 "2016-10-19T13:08:11Z")
“You didn’t build that,” is an acknowledgement that running a business isn’t that simple. For, in context, that quote means that government infrastructure is required and businesses don’t just exist in a vacuum. Then again, I’m not that surprised that you got that backwards (considering your completely out-of-context attempted gotcha quote). ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/554 "2016-10-19T13:12:34Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > It astounds me how many Democrats feel the same way about running and growing a business. ‘You didn’t build that’. That quote, taken out of context as correctly noted upthread, is attributed solely to Barack Obama. I’ve never heard anyone else but Republicans repeating it (again, out of context), so what are you talking about? You want to make a case for something, leading off with complete bullshit is not the best way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/555 "2016-10-19T13:35:16Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > It astounds me how many Democrats feel the same way about running and growing a business. ‘You didn’t build that’. While you’re in the process of taking 4 words out of the middle of someone’s speech to misinterpret in order to get angry about the misinterpretation, do you ever wonder to yourself “how did I become so intellectually bankrupt”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/556 "2016-10-19T13:51:02Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Of course not. But I don’t buy into your premise that he’s a bigot, racists, xenophobic, or sexist. > > If I did I wouldn’t vote for him. Is there anything he could do that would make you think he might be one of those things? If so, what? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/557 "2016-10-19T14:44:02Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > …You want to make a case for something, leading off with complete bullshit is not the best way to do it. If the case you want to make is complete bullshit, there are limited options. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/558 "2016-10-19T15:28:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, to some extent. > > Some guy at the Daily Kos says it better than I can > > **“It has become increasingly clear to me that HRC’s pursuit of the White House has less to do with the welfare of American Society and everything to do with one person’s relentless desire to obtain high office… From serving on WalMart’s board, to tolerating her husband’s infidelities, to trading government favors for Clinton Foundation donations, her rise has been marked by Machiavellian maneuvers.”** You mean unlike Trump, whose pursuit of the White House has nothing to do with ego whatsoever, but represents only the principled stand from a selfless and humble man who does not seek power yet is willing to selflessly sacrifice his life because he’s not the hero America deserves but the one it needs ? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/559 "2016-10-19T16:18:24Z")
Many already pointed at the clear bullshit from HeweyLogan, I will look at his “bigot, racists, xenophobic, or sexist” items, and as an exercise I will use only \*\*conservative \*\*critics of Trump. > [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Of course not. But I don’t buy into your premise that he’s a bigot, racists, xenophobic, or sexist. > > If I did I wouldn’t vote for him. As it is clear, you are indeed a very ignorant guy. > **[In Ongoing Dance With Trump, GOP Pulls 'National Review' From Debate](https://www.npr.org/2016/01/22/463984412/stripping-conservative-magazine-of-debate-is-latest-sign-of-gops-trump-nerves)** > > After the conservative magazine declared that it is "Against Trump," it was barred from a Feb. 25 presidential debate. The move shows how delicately the Republican Party is handling Donald Trump. > [@](#): > > “Not since George Wallace has there been a presidential candidate who made racial and religious scapegoating so central to his campaign,” Cato Institute president David Boaz wrote. [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/us/politics/gop-hispanic-reaction-trump.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/us/politics/gop-hispanic-reaction-trump.html) > [@](#): > > “There was so much hope,” said Jacob Monty, a member of the Hispanic advisory council who was at the meeting with Mr. Trump. “He used us as props.” > > Mr. Monty, a longtime Republican, said that Mr. Trump had appeared humble during the meeting, listened to their proposals, acknowledged the difficulty of deporting 11 million unauthorized immigrants and suggested that he was working on a new policy that included a path to legalization. Mr. Monty resigned from the council after Mr. Trump’s speech. > > “That was not a Republican speech, that was populist propaganda,” Mr. Monty said. “He must listen to whoever speaks to him last.” > > Ramiro Pena, a pastor from Texas who was on Mr. Trump’s advisory council, also abandoned the campaign. According to an email to the Trump campaign, obtained by Politico, Mr. Pena, who could not be reached for comment, said the group that Mr. Trump had formed was a “scam.” > > Other conservative Hispanic leaders were also disappointed. > > Alfonso Aguilar, director of the American Principles Project’s Latino Partnership, who backed Mr. Trump and offered advice on immigration policy to his campaign, withdrew his support on Thursday morning. Mr. Aguilar said that he and other conservative Hispanic leaders had gotten behind Mr. Trump because they thought he would be able to work with Congress to get something done on immigration reform. > > “A couple of weeks ago, it sounded as if there was going to be a pivot,” said Mr. Aguilar, who predicted that other Republican Latinos would soon renounce their support for Mr. Trump. “If you heard the speech last night, it was either self-deport or be deported.” As for sexist: > **[Democrats Should Stop Pretending Trump’s Misogyny Represents the Conservative...](https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/07/donald-trump-misogyny-democratic-straw-man-conservatives/)** > > Donald Trump’s misogyny doesn’t represent the conservative movement as a whole. But that won’t stop Democrats from pretending it does. > [@](#): > > One by one, Donald Trump’s misogynistic statements were aired in a video at the Democratic National Convention (DNC) on Tuesday night. The video, presented just before Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards’s speech, showcased a recurring claim of this year’s DNC: Trump is living proof that Republicans, conservatives, and pro-lifers are perpetrating a war on women. > > Trump’s attitudes toward women are indefensible, and the fact that he’s the Republican presidential nominee surely says something unwelcome about the direction of the party. But it is dishonest for Democrats to use his remarks as a cudgel with which to club the entire conservative movement. Yep, bigoted, racist, xenophobic and sexist is what you are voting for. Notice how it is a given by the conservative critic that Trump is an example of someone that is not being representative of the conservative movement regarding women. Unfortunately that is undermined by what has taken place. We have seen most conservatives are still willing to lie in bed with that dog. Well, most Americans are realizing that the fleas the supporters of Trump are catching are because they want to. ---
**Author:** ![Waco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/edb3f5/32.png) [@Waco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waco)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/560 "2016-10-19T16:38:21Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Yeah. It’s funny, because we want to believe that Trump “protest-against-the-system” voting is a genuine plea by socioeconomically vulnerable less-educated white folks to be taken seriously – but we CAN’T take you seriously BECAUSE you will vote for this buffoon. > > How’s this sound, less-educated white guys? I promise to take your concerns seriously. Really. I will do what I can to help you get through these difficult times. _Just don’t f_#%ing vote for Trump.\* As President of the League of Less Educated White Guys, I’d like to personally thank you for not being condescending! By the way, how old were you when you figured out that you knew everything? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=29)