# Trump voters: explain yourselves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699 "2016-09-24T03:24:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/601 "2016-10-21T17:05:29Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > You are so full of bullshit I’m surprised they’re not milking you City boy, huh? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/602 "2016-10-21T17:48:45Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > No, that’s not what I saying. I’m saying that instead of fictionalized quotes Democrats use to rally and consolidate their base and get them believing in a theme, Republicans could and did the same with an actual quote he said. Regardless of the context. I don’t think it was nearly the “rallying cry” you make it out to be. It was a joke. It wasn’t all that funny. It was about the Vice presidential candidate. Are you saying that every time that SNL does a skit about a politician, that that is used to rally and consolidate the democratic base? The “You didn’t build that” quote, from the actual presidential candidate was repeated much much more than the “house comment”. I would venture to say that the house comment was never used in a political ad (I am not sure of this, but I never saw one, and a quick look about in google for ads in that campaign didn’t turn one up.) The “you didn’t build that” quote was featured very prominently in ads against Obama. Even after any voter with any level of interest in the political process would have known the full quote, they were still going on and on about it. > [@](#): > > And yes, I get the context. It’s been explained ad nauseam, infinitum. You get it, but you do not agree with it? Does that mean that you built all of your own infrastructure that supports your business? If so, Impressive. If not then what do you actually disagree with about the whole quote? And you do realize that we are tired of explaining it “ad nauseam, infinitum”, probably more tired than you of hearing the explanation. So why do you bring it up? > [@](#): > > Ha! I don’t think that’s what they were going for. In my opinion at least. Yeah, but that’s what it was about. He was talking about infrastructure, and he was being taken to task about it. You may not have seen it as an attack on infrastructure, but it most certainly was. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/603 "2016-10-21T17:54:55Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > City boy, huh? OK, that was funny. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/604 "2016-10-21T18:43:36Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > City boy, huh? > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > OK, that was funny. Beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/605 "2016-10-21T23:43:57Z")
Erm… they _do_ “milk” bulls. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/606 "2016-10-22T00:34:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The “You didn’t build that” quote, from the actual presidential candidate was repeated much much more than the “house comment”. I would venture to say that the house comment was never used in a political ad (I am not sure of this, but I never saw one, and a quick look about in google for ads in that campaign didn’t turn one up.) The “you didn’t build that” quote was featured very prominently in ads against Obama. Even after any voter with any level of interest in the political process would have known the full quote, they were still going on and on about it. > > You get it, but you do not agree with it? Does that mean that you built all of your own infrastructure that supports your business? If so, Impressive. If not then what do you actually disagree with about the whole quote? “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that.” Context seems pretty clear. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/607 "2016-10-22T00:40:26Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that.” > > Context seems pretty clear. Oh honey, it’s retarded. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/608 "2016-10-22T00:42:32Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that.” > > Context seems pretty clear. Seems clear that the Republican propaganda from American Crossroads and Carl Rove misled many indeed. > **['You Didn't Build That,' Uncut and Unedited - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/you-didnt-build-that-uncut-and-unedited/)** > > Mitt Romney and his allies have attacked President Barack Obama — often out of context — for saying, “If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.” American Crossroads posted a 60-second Web video called “Build”... > [@](#): > > In the two-and-a-half-minute video, Obama is shown saying: “\*f you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart.” And, then, he says: “If you got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.” Everything the president said in between those two quotes — and before and after them — was left out. > > This is not to say that Republicans are always distorting the president’s words. In fact, Romney himself during a July 17 speech in Pennsylvania provided a more complete account of what the president actually said. > > **Romney acknowledged: “you really couldn’t have a business if you didn’t have those things” as described by Obama, including teachers and firefighters.** > [@](#): > > (Again, the president said: “Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that.”) The campaign also posted a new Web video in which the narrator says, “Actually, he was talking about building ‘infrastructure and education’ … ‘not that individuals don’t build their businesses.’ ” We don’t know what the president had in mind when he uttered those words, and his intent is not clear. Regardless, our conclusion is the same: Taking snippets of his speech ignores the larger context of the president’s meaning that a business owner does not become successful “on your own.” ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/609 "2016-10-22T01:58:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Seems clear that the Republican propaganda from American Crossroads and Carl Rove misled many indeed. > > ['You Didn't Build That,' Uncut and Unedited - FactCheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/you-didnt-build-that-uncut-and-unedited/) Why was it necessary that business owners be told that they didn’t personally build the infrastructure? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/610 "2016-10-22T02:16:24Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Why was it necessary that business owners be told that they didn’t personally build the infrastructure? Sarcasm toward the target of this thread and their preferred candidate? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/611 "2016-10-22T02:17:58Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Why was it necessary that business owners be told that they didn’t personally build the infrastructure? Probably because of all the "“self made” businessmen who felt that government should back the hell off, since they had no role in building the business. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/612 "2016-10-22T04:38:19Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I don’t think it was nearly the “rallying cry” you make it out to be. It was a joke. It wasn’t all that funny. It was about the Vice presidential candidate. Are you saying that every time that SNL does a skit about a politician, that that is used to rally and consolidate the democratic base? Of course not. But you know better… come on. I’m not talking about how true or false the comments were. I’m saying that in the same way the the SNL skits and the various crap said about Palin was crap towards the Republicans and their VP choiceour side was in the same vein as the Obama comment was taken and abused - something to rally and encourage the troops. I’ve said it a couple times now that I’m to the point I think you’ll never understand what I’m saying - it was mocking what the President said, and what it could mean. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > You get it, but you do not agree with it? I don’t. I read it to believe that without government business wouldn’t exist. It’s with their blessing and help that I I believe that without business the government wouldn’t exist. That’s my take of it. Not what the point of promoting the comment was. It meant things to different Republicans, all of which centered on the idea that Obama was and is big government, the most interaction possible, and effecting and interfering in everyone lives more than it should ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/613 "2016-10-22T10:45:19Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Why was it necessary that business owners be told that they didn’t personally build the infrastructure? Because folks like you (and Trump and Perot and dozens of narcissistic, unthinking, Ayn Rand fans) like to pretend that it is true. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/614 "2016-10-22T10:55:47Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I read it to believe that without government business wouldn’t exist. It’s with their blessing and help that I I believe that without business the government wouldn’t exist. These two statements are not in contradiction. Neither business nor government (above the subsistence tribal level) would exist without the other. Here is Obama’s specific statement on the subject: > [@](#): > > There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me – because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t – look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.) > If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. **If you’ve got a business – you didn’t build that.** Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. > The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires. The “that” in the bolded sentence is clearly referring to the American system and the infrastructure, not the business. (If you dig up a video of the speech, his spoken words make that even more clear.) And here is the Elizabeth Warren statement on which he was building: > [@](#): > > I hear all this, you know, ‘Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever.’ No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody. You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/615 "2016-10-22T14:57:32Z")
I’d like to know **HeweyLogan’s** opinion on which reality show Trump should go back to once he gets crushed in the election: _The Biggest Loser_ or _The Amazing Racist_. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/616 "2016-10-22T16:04:20Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Of course not. But you know better… come on. > > I’m not talking about how true or false the comments were. I’m saying that in the same way the the SNL skits and the various crap said about Palin was crap towards the Republicans and their VP choiceour side was in the same vein as the Obama comment was taken and abused - something to rally and encourage the troops. > > I’ve said it a couple times now that I’m to the point I think you’ll never understand what I’m saying - it was mocking what the President said, and what it could mean. I understand what you are saying. I just disagree. If you ask nearly any democrat about “I can see my house from here”, they will laugh and talk about the SNL skit. They have no thought that Palin, the vice presidential candidate, actually said it. If you ask a republican about “You didn’t build that”, then you will generally get the response that Obama, the incumbent presidential candidate, was denigrating business owners. These are not the same thing at all. > [@](#): > > I don’t. I read it to believe that without government business wouldn’t exist. It’s with their blessing and help that I I believe that without business the government wouldn’t exist. Without government, my business wouldn’t exist. I need roads to connect my customers to my doors, I need power lines to run my equipment, I need gas lines to heat my place, I need phone and internet to conduct transactions, I need a skilled educated workforce to draw upon, I need a peaceful society without war and with the expectation that laws have force in order to be prosperous. I need to have a form of money to trade with clients, vendors and employees that has value. I get all that crap from the government. Even bankruptcy protection is a useful thing. I have never used it, and I hope to never use it, but it makes it easier to take a risk when you know that if things go badly, then you are not completely screwed. Now, without businesses, the government is pretty pointless, so there certainly is a symbiosis there, and the government does depend on them to have an economy worth protecting, but if my, or you business, went out of business right now, the government would stand just fine. If the government collapsed right now, I know running my business would be much much harder, to the point of being impossible, and it would also be the least of my concerns. > [@](#): > > That’s my take of it. Not what the point of promoting the comment was. It meant things to different Republicans, all of which centered on the idea that Obama was and is big government, the most interaction possible, and effecting and interfering in everyone lives more than it should If building infrastructure, providing a stable economy in a peaceful environment, and assisting in the education of my workforce is “interference”, then more power to 'em ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699/617 "2016-10-22T17:39:51Z")
In sane capitalism, the business owner seeks to provide something that people need and to make enough profit to support himself and his people. In rabid, vampire capitalism, the businessman seeks to make something that will make him rich, without much concern for his effect on his fellow citizens. For him, a pet rock is better than a low-pollution detergent, say, if the pet rock has a higher profit return. Nothing wrong with business and capitalism as a thing. Fact is, consumer choice is a very good tool for economic planning. Central planning is weak that way, as the Soviet “system” amply demonstrates. Only thing wrong with capitalism is people. Which is the only thing wrong with socialism. So, improve the people. Educate, nurture, advance. Impractical? Maybe. Got a better plan? Got something better to do? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-explain-yourselves/766699.md?page=30)