# Trump voters prefer Jefferson Davis as president to Barack Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487 "2017-08-23T21:33:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/261 "2017-08-27T22:44:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And also because anti-Nazism is perceived, rightly, in my opinion, as a left-wing political issue and not a moral one. Were the killing of innocent people truly the engine of left-wing opposition to Nazism, why is it so silent about Communism… > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The difference is that there are [a number of communities](http://www.ic.org/directory/communes/) around the world, and even in the US that practice and promote communism without being the least bit violent, bigoted or repressive. They may not be sustainable long term and may only work for relatively small groups, but they are relatively harmless. Communism isn’t evil, hateful and repressive, totalitarianism is evil, hateful and repressive. The problem is that in the process of forcing everyone to be communists you generally end up with totalitarianism. But there is nothing about free healtcare and education, a social safety net, and a general postive attitude towards sharing that necessitates pogroms and gulags. > > Nazism and white supremacy on the other hand is impossible to support without advocating violence and the repression of those deemed unworthy. Every six months or so,\* I find myself questioning whether it was such a wise move to put **SA** on my ignore list eight years ago. And then one of you ferschlugginer Dopers (whose quotes of his posts usually annoy me so much) will quote all or part of a post of his that reassures me that it was. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/262 "2017-08-27T22:48:52Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I don’t have a problem with **conservative** voters being “tired” of liberal voters and grumbling about them and trying to elect responsible **conservative** candidates to thwart the liberal voters’ political aims. As a liberal voter, I do the same back at them. I mean, that’s just par for the course in a democracy. > > I have a **big** problem with \*\*conservative \*\*voters being so irrationally overinvested in their exasperation with liberal voters **that they voluntarily support for high political office the most irresponsible unqualified corrupt buffoon of a demagogue that they can find because he’s the one who pisses off the liberals the most.** > > Being “tired of people like me” is not a valid excuse for deliberately deciding to shoot the whole country in the nuts by supporting an obstreperously incompetent narcissist as its Chief Executive. You keep misspelling “radical reactionary.” I _expect_ it from idiots like **octopus** , but I tend to think of you as having your head on straight… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/263 "2017-08-27T22:57:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Answering “yes” to those questions is something I sense you’re probably not too unwilling to do. > [@elucidator](#): > > Police called. Your Freshman Comp 101 teacher is standing out on a ledge, threatening to jump. There’s probably a reason why law-talky people make multiples of what Freshman Comp teachers make… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/264 "2017-08-27T23:02:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Clinton insulted about half of Trump’s supporters, as a group. Trump insulted 100% of Trump’s supporters, as a group. As well as insulting 100% of women, 100% of immigrants, 100% of Muslims, and a wide variety of other groups. …100% of people who _don’t_ hate what America stands for… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/265 "2017-08-27T23:12:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, true shit. Her insult covered Trump supporters, calling half of them phobic and the other half so desperate for change they’d support a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic campaign. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > You claim to have held your nose and voted for HRC, yet you repeatedly defend the indefensible. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > You insist on playing Atticus Finch for Team Trump, counselor. Why? I presume that it’s because it IS possible to intellectually remove the individuals under discussion from the structure of the principles being argued and argue as though the _ **principles** _ are what require our attention. A little examination of the conversation should reveal why it’s commendable of him to do so. Mind you, I still find myself perturbed by the fact that the apparent beneficiary of his line of argument is the America-hating fuckstick. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/266 "2017-08-27T23:19:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > …(although your views do seem to evolve rapidly over the course of a thread sometimes). > [@elucidator](#): > > So, you consider an open-minded willingness to change opinion to be a moral, intellectual and political failing? Yes? Dammit, somebody moved the fucking “like” button again… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/267 "2017-08-27T23:37:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > GOP: Majority in the House. Majority in the Senate. God help us, Trump. And 37 governors, and 68 state legislative chambers. > > Yeah, progressives are doing great. No need for you to change your approach. Stand firm. Don’t mind if we do. > **[Generic ballot Polls](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/generic-ballot/)** > > The latest political polls and polling averages from FiveThirtyEight. Oh, and do tell your conservative friends to continue to support the POTUS by continuing to not make more forceful moves to tell him to stop his hate agenda. A lot of minorities, women, and people that appreciate justice and science that were misguided in the last elections are learning their mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/268 "2017-08-27T23:37:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’d be a bit more certain of this if I thought a majority of these folks know who Jefferson Davis was. A litany of “Jaywalking” segments from the former “Tonight Show” host leaves me convinced that most wouldn’t. > > Now, someone above said, “Then they are deplorably ignorant.” > > THAT is the kind of gratuitous insult that isn’t justified (politically) and doesn’t help. Awww. I’ve always held (perhaps naively) to the doctrine that truth is an absolute defense… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/269 "2017-08-27T23:42:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > We’ll have enough on our plate keeping PETA from getting into a knife-fight with the vegans. > [@SteveG1](#): > > Can we just let them go at it and watch from the sidelines? 🆒 Don’t be silly. We NEED them ALL up and about to get to the polls. Kinda hard if half (or more) of them are in the ER with stab wounds. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/270 "2017-08-27T23:43:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Apart from the slight downside of ending up with Trump as President, I am pleased with your resolute conviction. It will keep Republicans on power. > > Here’s what you don’t see: there are a whole bunch of people that don’t have the skills as a rhetor or the temperament to engage in debate. They don’t like being called racists and bigots. But they don’t debate the merits of the charge. They just absorb the fact that one party holds them in contempt, and then they vote. > > GOP: Majority in the House. Majority in the Senate. God help us, Trump. And 37 governors, and 68 state legislative chambers. > > Yeah, progressives are doing great. No need for you to change your approach. Stand firm. I continue to reject this claim, sir. The fault of the rise of Trump and the bigotry that he exploits does not lie with those who speak out against it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/271 "2017-08-27T23:49:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > In another thread, a poster is talking about a friend who he believes has fallen for a mail order bride type scam. There is quite a bit of caution advised, as people are aware that those who have fallen for scams are the last ones to admit that they have fallen for a scam, and will often times become quite defensive, even to the point of becoming hostile with those trying to point out the scam. Please post a link to that thread. This one is getting really depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/272 "2017-08-28T00:04:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I continue to reject this claim, sir. > > The fault of the rise of Trump and the bigotry that he exploits does not lie with those who speak out against it. Some time back, I read a series of essays, later collected into a book, about how to win at competitive video games. Rather than discussing specific strategy, the author first discussed a mindset he called the “scrub” mindset: > [@](#): > > Scrubs are likely to label a wide variety of moves and tactics as “cheap.” For example, performing a throw in fighting games is often called cheap. A throw is a move that grabs an opponent and damages them even while they’re defending against all other kinds of attacks. Throws exist specifically to allow you to damage opponents who block and don’t attack. > > As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet scrubs construct their own set of principles that state they should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. Scrubs think of blocking as a kind of magic shield which will protect them indefinitely. Throwing violates the rules in their heads even though it doesn’t violate any actual game rule. He goes on to give other examples: > [@](#): > > And it’s not just throwing, it’s also a long list of somewhat arbitrary maneuvers. If you keep a scrub away from you by zoning them with projectile attacks, you’ll probably be called cheap. If you do one move over and over, that’s cheap. If you get a lead, then do nothing for 30 seconds so that you can win by time-out, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. > > Let’s specifically consider the case where you do one move over and over. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Are they such a poor player that they can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t you be a fool for not using that move? I feel there’s a useful analogy here, although clearly not an exact match for th political realm. But I say it’s possible, as Obama did, do win elections without making the election about how awful your opponent and his supporters are. Obama did not sacrifice his duty to uphold noble goals. He didn’t sell his soul to win the White House. It’s possible to stand for what is right without gratuitous attacks on the opposing voters. You hold up this notion of calling out bigotry as some sort of holy calling, that, win or lose, your candidate must do it. But if the result is a Trump victory, then it seems that the end result is that bigotry GAINS footholds. I agree that my putative party is more to blame for Trump’s victory. And I admit that part of the reason I’m pushing this theory is that I would rather saddle you (collectively) with the blame than think about the flaws on my side. But that doesn’t make false anything I said. Republicans are not going to defeat Trump now. We had our chance and fumbled the ball right into out own end zone. I acknowledge this. But as long as your team sneers and condescends to half the Trump voters, they’re not going to budge. That’s something you guys have to adjust. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/273 "2017-08-28T00:09:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Why? I don’t think calling for an end to affirmative action is prima facie evidence that someone is a racist; I merely note that some folks _do_ think that. Good point. We better get a task force online to explain that there’s a difference between “prima facie” and “probable cause”… ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/274 "2017-08-28T00:09:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I continue to reject this claim, sir. > > The fault of the rise of Trump and the bigotry that he exploits does not lie with those who speak out against it. It’s ok, the national shitshow that is the modern GOP is GOOD. They’re doing GOOD. It’s a GOOD thing. But then, some still feel the Republican Party is conservative. Not a reactionary party of which 45% prefer a traitorous Confederate to a black President. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/275 "2017-08-28T00:22:21Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You’re the one introducing a second step! > > To me, whether he thinks he’s a racist is _irrelevant_. And whether I think he’s a racist, that’s irrelevant too. If he asks me whether she thinks he’s a racist, it strikes me as convoluted doublethink to answer that question by going down another road: the question is what _she_ thinks, not what he thinks or what I think. Nonsense. If you truly think the question is whether SHE thinks he is a racist, you can ONLY use as evidence for what SHE thinks, the words SHE has said. The words that SHE has said clearly allow anyone who doesn’t think they apply to him to conclude that SHE does NOT apply them to him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/276 "2017-08-28T00:27:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You hold up this notion of calling out bigotry as some sort of holy calling, that, win or lose, your candidate must do it. But if the result is a Trump victory, then it seems that the end result is that bigotry GAINS footholds. > > I agree that my putative party is more to blame for Trump’s victory. And I admit that part of the reason I’m pushing this theory is that I would rather saddle you (collectively) with the blame than think about the flaws on my side. > > But that doesn’t make false anything I said. Republicans are not going to defeat Trump now. We had our chance and fumbled the ball right into out own end zone. I acknowledge this. But as long as your team sneers and condescends to half the Trump voters, they’re not going to budge. That’s something you guys have to adjust. Sorry, but in reality it is you and many that are more reasonable that needs to do the adjustments. John McCain and others in Arizona are doing it. Again, I do say this based on what was seen. More people opposing hate in the protests and the polls showing that the longer it is clear that hate is being cuddled by the Republicans the less support they are getting. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/277 "2017-08-28T00:28:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I feel there’s a useful analogy here, although clearly not an exact match for th political realm. But I say it’s possible, as Obama did, do win elections without making the election about how awful your opponent and his supporters are. Obama did not sacrifice his duty to uphold noble goals. He didn’t sell his soul to win the White House. It’s possible to stand for what is right without gratuitous attacks on the opposing voters. I concede that HRC is no Obama. I thought we learned that in 2008, but it seems some democrats needed to learn that lesson again in 2016. > [@Bricker](#): > > You hold up this notion of calling out bigotry as some sort of holy calling, that, win or lose, your candidate must do it. But if the result is a Trump victory, then it seems that the end result is that bigotry GAINS footholds. _We hold these truths to be self-evident_. Apparently not to everybody. I wonder if great civil rights activists like MLK and Nelson Mandela thought it worthwhile to tone down their rhetoric? I’m not so arrogant to think I’m anything approaching them, just hoping to take a page out of their book. > [@Bricker](#): > > I agree that my putative party is more to blame for Trump’s victory. And I admit that part of the reason I’m pushing this theory is that I would rather saddle you (collectively) with the blame than think about the flaws on my side. I appreciate this. Thank you. > [@Bricker](#): > > But that doesn’t make false anything I said. Republicans are not going to defeat Trump now. We had our chance and fumbled the ball right into out own end zone. I acknowledge this. But as long as your team sneers and condescends to half the Trump voters, they’re not going to budge. That’s something you guys have to adjust. I think the GOP can do some things that would go a long way to repair the damage. Sadly, few politicians on either side would have the courage to commit political suicide for the greater good. I think the best thing our side can do is elect leaders who can inspire and lead (like the Obamas). If we did that, there would be less need for continued condescension and rhetoric towards Trump supporters because the focus would change to something more positive and forward looking. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/278 "2017-08-28T00:29:54Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Every six months or so,\* I find myself questioning whether it was such a wise move to put **SA** on my ignore list eight years ago. And then one of you ferschlugginer Dopers (whose quotes of his posts usually annoy me so much) will quote all or part of a post of his that reassures me that it was. > > That is all. Whoops, my mistake; that was not all at _all_. I meant to put in a disclaimer to my asterisk, and I TOTALLY spaced on that! \*hyperbole; it’s really a lot more than six months that go by before I question it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/279 "2017-08-28T00:31:34Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think the best thing our side can do is elect leaders who can inspire and lead (like the Obamas). If we did that, there would be less need for continued condescension and rhetoric towards Trump supporters because the focus would change to something more positive and forward looking. QFT. I fully expect to be voting for a Democrat for President in 2020, and it would be nice if it were someone that fit that bill. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/280 "2017-08-28T00:40:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Apart from the slight downside of ending up with Trump as President, I am pleased with your resolute conviction. It will keep Republicans on power. … > … > [@Bricker](#): > > … > I fully expect to be voting for a Democrat for President in 2020, … Or you could just stay home and fuck cactuses. Lots of cactusses, plural cactusses ending in es’s! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487.md?page=15)