# Trump voters prefer Jefferson Davis as president to Barack Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487 "2017-08-23T21:33:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/401 "2017-08-30T19:39:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As I understand the survey, the response was that 23% of conservatives would be “unhappy with an interracial marriage in their family.” That’s not the same thing as saying it’s wrong; I remember that one set of parents to a friend of mine that was contemplating an interracial marriage were concerned not out of a sense that it was wrong, but out of a sense that the union would face difficulties that wouldn’t arise in a marriage between people of similar race. (Indeed their prediction was correct but not determinative: my friends just celebrated their 20th anniversary last fall.) They report that it’s true that they suffered consequences that arose from their mixed race marriage; the husband was once detained by police as he took his daughter off a merry-go-round because he couldn’t possibly be her dad. > > Obviously the difficulties did not sink the marriage, and in my view may have made the union stronger; they have a very “us against the world” vibe. > > But I say all this only to say that your summary is not precisely fair. I’ll look for other polls too, but with that large a disparity I think it’s reasonable to suspect that more conservatives morally disapprove of it than liberals. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/402 "2017-08-30T19:56:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As I understand the survey, the response was that 23% of conservatives would be “unhappy with an interracial marriage in their family.” That’s not the same thing as saying it’s wrong; I remember that one set of parents to a friend of mine that was contemplating an interracial marriage were concerned not out of a sense that it was wrong, but out of a sense that the union would face difficulties that wouldn’t arise in a marriage between people of similar race. (Indeed their prediction was correct but not determinative: my friends just celebrated their 20th anniversary last fall.) They report that it’s true that they suffered consequences that arose from their mixed race marriage; the husband was once detained by police as he took his daughter off a merry-go-round because he couldn’t possibly be her dad. > > Obviously the difficulties did not sink the marriage, and in my view may have made the union stronger; they have a very “us against the world” vibe. > > But I say all this only to say that your summary is not precisely fair. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m more pleased that 77% have no problem with it, plus I’m cognizant that of the 23% who object many are concerned about negative consequences for mixed couple’s children and/or the treatment of the couples themselves might encounter when out and about. I’m neighbors with a black guy/white woman couple and they’re nice, sweet and loving people. We’ve never talked about it but I worry about the kind of treatment they may experience when going out to eat (which they do a lot) and or are out in public generally. They haven’t mentioned anything about it and don’t seem to hesitate in going out so I assume they do fine but still I worry. > > But now you’re changing the subject from behavior to belief and I believe that people are entitled to believe whatever they like so long as they don’t deliberately seek to harm people. So, what you are saying, is that this 23% of conservatives is not racist, they just believe that society, their friends and neighbors and other family members are racist enough that they will cuase problems for the otherwise happy couple? Just out of curiosity, why do you think that democrats have a more optimistic view of humanity? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/403 "2017-08-30T20:02:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll look for other polls too, but with that large a disparity I think it’s reasonable to suspect that more conservatives morally disapprove of it than liberals. Yes, that’s probably a safe assumption – I doubt only the scope of the problem, not its existence. It’s absolutely fair to say that more open racists identify as conservative than as liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/404 "2017-08-30T20:11:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, what you are saying, is that this 23% of conservatives is not racist, they just believe that society, their friends and neighbors and other family members are racist enough that they will cuase problems for the otherwise happy couple? There’s no foundation for the compound predicates you offer up here. “Society?” Yes. “Their friends and neighbors and other family members?” No. Nothing I said can be fairly read to imply I was discussing anything other than society at large. Now, that said: do you think society continues to exhibit racist attributes? I think you do, based on things you’ve said previously (I welcome correction if I’m wrong about that conclusion.) It seems that you’d agree that an interracial couple could face difficulties that a homogenous-race would not. Do you? > [@](#): > > Just out of curiosity, why do you think that democrats have a more optimistic view of humanity? I’m not sure I agree they do. In fact, when the subject is the latent racism still extant in society, I’d say that Democrats have a more pessimistic view than Republicans. Here, though, the subject is: “Should a couple get married based on their love, and not worry about society’s racism creating obstacles for their marriage?” Democrats are absolutely more optimistic in answering this question. Now that I think about it, maybe the question isn’t even that. Maybe it’s, “Even if I harbor concerns about the effect of racism on a potential marriage, I would never express those concerns by saying I was ‘unhappy’ at the prospect of such a union in my family.” Which is, frankly, good advice. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/405 "2017-08-30T20:22:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, what you are saying, is that this 23% of conservatives is not racist, they just believe that society, their friends and neighbors and other family members are racist enough that they will cuase problems for the otherwise happy couple? No, I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying that many of the 23% are not racist but those that remain might cause problems for racially mixed couples. And contrary to popular belief, such racism does not lie solely with conservatives. For example, a good friend of mine is liberal through and through, and so are most of her family. But she’s a good-looking woman and a few years ago took to dating a black body-builder and I couldn’t believe the criticism she drew from her family for going with a black guy. (He and I became good friends, btw. :D) And yet all these people are died-in-the-wool democrats and Obama supporters and have been fully supportive every major liberal trend since the 60s. I’ll point out also that racism exists quite strongly among blacks themselves and blacks who marry whites are often considered disloyal or ‘acting white’. The concept of and criticism toward acting white is fully racist on its own. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Just out of curiosity, why do you think that democrats have a more optimistic view of humanity? I think the exact opposite. Democrats/liberals are forever battling humanity and doing everything in their power to force it to submit to their idea of what it ought to be. If they were truly optimistic about humanity they’d be content to let nature take its course, relying on humans’ innate goodness to rule the day. We’ve seen what happens when liberalism achieves most of its goals and becomes communism. Fear, intimidation, repression and punishment for disagreement are the order of the day. Locating anyone with an optimistic outlook anywhere in the Soviet Union or Mao’s China would be quite the rare occurrence I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/406 "2017-08-30T20:30:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There’s no foundation for the compound predicates you offer up here. “Society?” Yes. “Their friends and neighbors and other family members?” No. Nothing I said can be fairly read to imply I was discussing anything other than society at large. > > Now, that said: do you think society continues to exhibit racist attributes? > > I think you do, based on things you’ve said previously (I welcome correction if I’m wrong about that conclusion.) > > It seems that you’d agree that an interracial couple could face difficulties that a homogenous-race would not. Do you? > > I’m not sure I agree they do. In fact, when the subject is the latent racism still extant in society, I’d say that Democrats have a more pessimistic view than Republicans. > > Here, though, the subject is: “Should a couple get married based on their love, and not worry about society’s racism creating obstacles for their marriage?” Democrats are absolutely more optimistic in answering this question. > > Now that I think about it, maybe the question isn’t even that. Maybe it’s, “Even if I harbor concerns about the effect of racism on a potential marriage, I would never express those concerns by saying I was ‘unhappy’ at the prospect of such a union in my family.” > > Which is, frankly, good advice. So, you say that the difference is that liberals interpret it differently than conservatives? Dems hear, “Would this union make you unhappy?” Conservatives hear, “Do you think that there are potential society biases that may cause difficulties in the marriage being accepted?” I think these conservatives are overthinking things. My parents would be happily part of the 23%, they threw a massive fit when my sister was asked to a school dance by a black guy. Now, they did use the “excuse” that it wasn’t that they were against her dating a black guy, but that they were worried about what “others” would think. That people may treat them poorly because they were on a date together. (This was 1992, BTW, not the 70’s) To be honest, I didn’t believe that excuse from my parents, and, as much respect as I have for your legal knowledge, I have nearly as much difficulty believing it from you. You are unhappy with a family member entering an interracial marriage because _ **you** _ are not happy with a family member entering an interracial marriage. [“You” referring, of course, to the 23% who answered that they would be unhappy, not you, you you.] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/407 "2017-08-30T20:33:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m more pleased that 77% have no problem with it, plus I’m cognizant that of the 23% who object many are concerned about negative consequences for mixed couple’s children and/or the treatment of the couples themselves might encounter when out and about. I’m neighbors with a black guy/white woman couple and they’re nice, sweet and loving people. We’ve never talked about it but I worry about the kind of treatment they may experience when going out to eat (which they do a lot) and or are out in public generally. They haven’t mentioned anything about it and don’t seem to hesitate in going out so I assume they do fine but still I worry. How about the fact that twice as many Republicans as Democrats find interracial marriage to be a “bad” thing, and almost twice as many Democrats as Republicans find it to be a “good” thing? [http://americablog.com/2017/05/republicans-twice-likely-find-interracial-marriage-bad.html](http://americablog.com/2017/05/republicans-twice-likely-find-interracial-marriage-bad.html) Does that bother you? > [@](#): > > But now you’re changing the subject from behavior to belief and I believe that people are entitled to believe whatever they like so long as they don’t deliberately seek to harm people. Agreed. And I find your argument that liberals behave worse than conservatives to be bullshit, and based on nothing more than anecdotes. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/408 "2017-08-30T20:33:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If they were truly optimistic about humanity they’d be content to let nature take its course, relying on humans’ innate goodness to rule the day. Since when has humans’ innate goodness done anything positive, if no one actually did anything? If humans have an innate goodness, it is represented by the progressives who are trying to improve humanity’s lot, not by the conservatives who consider the current situation the most optimal. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/409 "2017-08-30T20:37:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, you say that the difference is that liberals interpret it differently than conservatives? > > Dems hear, “Would this union make you unhappy?” > > Conservatives hear, “Do you think that there are potential society biases that may cause difficulties in the marriage being accepted?” > > I think these conservatives are overthinking things. > > My parents would be happily part of the 23%, they threw a massive fit when my sister was asked to a school dance by a black guy. Now, they did use the “excuse” that it wasn’t that they were against her dating a black guy, but that they were worried about what “others” would think. That people may treat them poorly because they were on a date together. (This was 1992, BTW, not the 70’s) > > To be honest, I didn’t believe that excuse from my parents, and, as much respect as I have for your legal knowledge, I have nearly as much difficulty believing it from you. > > You are unhappy with a family member entering an interracial marriage because _ **you** _ are not happy with a family member entering an interracial marriage. [“You” referring, of course, to the 23% who answered that they would be unhappy, not you, you you.] That’s not a refutation. Merely saying you don’t believe it doesn’t refute the argument. In my own experience, there are people from whom I’d believe it and people who, if they offered it up, I’d be certain it was a tame excuse. But I’m absolutely unwilling to say it’s per se incredible. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/410 "2017-08-30T20:46:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How about the fact that twice as many Republicans as Democrats find interracial marriage to be a “bad” thing, and almost twice as many Democrats as Republicans find it to be a “good” thing? > > [http://americablog.com/2017/05/republicans-twice-likely-find-interracial-marriage-bad.html](http://americablog.com/2017/05/republicans-twice-likely-find-interracial-marriage-bad.html) > > Does that bother you? The numbers are: 12% of Republicans found it a bad thing, while 6% of Democrats felt the same. The worst numbers, the highest “bad” numbers, were among blacks: 18%. Does that make you regard blacks less kindly, as you seem to be suggesting it makes you regard Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/411 "2017-08-30T20:50:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The numbers are: 12% of Republicans found it a bad thing, while 6% of Democrats felt the same. > > The worst numbers, the highest “bad” numbers, were among blacks: 18%. > > Does that make you regard blacks less kindly, as you seem to be suggesting it makes you regard Republicans? It surprises me, but it doesn’t make me regard anyone less kindly (including Republicans). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/412 "2017-08-30T20:56:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It surprises me, but it doesn’t make me regard anyone less kindly (including Republicans). My mistake, then. I took your question to **Starving Artist** (“Does that bother you?”) to suggest that it _should_ bother him; that he should regard the disparity as a flaw in the Republicans or as evidence of a certain superiority in the minds of Democrats on the issue, a general sense I tried to summarize as “less kindly.” But that was only my inference. What was the point of your “Does that bother you” question? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/413 "2017-08-30T21:04:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Since when has humans’ innate goodness done anything positive, if no one actually did anything? > > If humans have an innate goodness, it is represented by the progressives who are trying to improve humanity’s lot, not by the conservatives who consider the current situation the most optimal. Trying to improve humanity’s lot is not the same as improving it. Conservatives recognize that much of what liberals favor only creates more and worse problems than the status quo. They also know that liberals don’t care a whit what consequences arise from whatever it is that they’re reflexively reacting to, they just want what they want and consequences be damned. One only has to look at the nonsensical state this country is in today to see evidence of that. They also know that liberals are never satisfied and never stop finding new ways to agitate. To take just one example, 50 years ago liberals were all about integration. In the meantime they’ve done everything they can to heighten tension, anger and resentment between the two races and are now beginning to demand new kinds of segregation, only this time based on the premise that these new kinds of integration are intended to protect black people and black culture. How the hell are the two races ever to achieve harmony and a lack of bias when they’re constantly being pitted against one another? The politics of liberals is the politics of division, villainization, anger, hate and intolerance, and 50 years of its dominant social influence has brought the country to the state it’s in now. Good job, liberals! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/414 "2017-08-30T21:09:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My mistake, then. I took your question to **Starving Artist** (“Does that bother you?”) to suggest that it _should_ bother him; that he should regard the disparity as a flaw in the Republicans or as evidence of a certain superiority in the minds of Democrats on the issue, a general sense I tried to summarize as “less kindly.” > > But that was only my inference. > > What was the point of your “Does that bother you” question? It bothers me that it’s non-zero (or very close to zero) with any group, including liberals/Democrats. It means there are long-standing problems in our society and culture that haven’t yet gone away. But chiefly, I was trying to prick **Starving Artist’s** very annoying (and utterly ridiculous) bubble that all or nearly all of the problems in America are due to liberals/Democrats, and none or nearly none are due to conservatives/Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/415 "2017-08-30T22:02:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Trying to improve humanity’s lot is not the same as improving it. Conservatives recognize that much of what liberals favor only creates more and worse problems than the status quo. They also know that liberals don’t care a whit what consequences arise from whatever it is that they’re reflexively reacting to, they just want what they want and consequences be damned. One only has to look at the nonsensical state this country is in today to see evidence of that. > > They also know that liberals are never satisfied and never stop finding new ways to agitate. To take just one example, 50 years ago liberals were all about integration. In the meantime they’ve done everything they can to heighten tension, anger and resentment between the two races and are now beginning to demand new kinds of segregation, only this time based on the premise that these new kinds of integration are intended to protect black people and black culture. How the hell are the two races ever to achieve harmony and a lack of bias when they’re constantly being pitted against one another? > > The politics of liberals is the politics of division, villainization, anger, hate and intolerance, and 50 years of its dominant social influence has brought the country to the state it’s in now. Good job, liberals! You “know” an awful lot about liberals, don’t you. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/416 "2017-08-30T22:26:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You “know” an awful lot about liberals, don’t you. He’s projecting. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/417 "2017-08-30T22:45:18Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > He’s projecting. No kidding - and his argument about how liberals “agitate” boils down to “them uppity blacks should know their place!” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/418 "2017-08-30T23:37:49Z")
Posts like yours make wonder why I even bother with this place. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/419 "2017-08-30T23:46:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Posts like yours make wonder why I even bother with this place. Seriously. What’s the problem - you think that there’s any other non-deranged explanation for how the party of civil rights has “done everything they can to heighten tension, anger and resentment between the two races”? Because unless you’re talking about how pesky liberals have consistently been shoving the existence of black people and their pesky desire to be treated fairly and not be shot and so forth, I can’t imagine what the hell insane delusional reality you’re imagining. What, you think the KKK are liberals? You think white supremacists are liberals? You think the recent spurt of nazis and Trump supporters are liberals? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/420 "2017-08-30T23:50:14Z")
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