# Trump voters prefer Jefferson Davis as president to Barack Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487 "2017-08-23T21:33:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/441 "2017-08-31T11:43:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This answer confuses me. I was wrong that you inferred something negative? No, you were right. That just doesn’t necessarily = “looking on them less kindly”. Perhaps a trivial distinction. I’m far less interested in this than in your opinions on **Starving Artist’s** view of the history of race and racism in America. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/442 "2017-08-31T11:50:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, sadly, you’re wrong. Most of the populace was divorced from all that and thought of race, when they thought of it at all, in terms of segregation, whereas now the entire country is up in arms over racial issues of one kind or another, a great deal of which comes from decades of false accusations of racism from the left, accusations that have nothing to do with real racism and are in fact simply disagreements with the left, which is widely known to view any opinion not their own as being due to some form of evil. Complete and utter bullshit. I’ve personally talked to dozens of older black Americans about this, and heard from or read from hundreds more, and pretty much all of them say the exact opposite. Race was front and center every day of their lives they went in public for most of the 20th century. That’s how life was for black people through most of our history – every day they’re reminded that they’re considered inferior by most of society, by many of their neighbors, and even by the law, in many cases. You’re just delusional on this. You’re incapable of seeing that life was massively, hugely different for black Americans than for you. It’s like you’re trying to talk about child birth with a dozen mothers who have, between them, had 50 children. It’s ludicrous. > [@](#): > > No one during my lifetime wanted to conserve slavery and the others have been gone for 50 years or more. Plenty in your life time wanted to conserve segregation and Jim Crow. Some even want those institutions to return, or at least for them to be legal again. > [@](#): > > And yet racial agitation from the left on a national and populational basis is exponentially more than it was then, and driven mostly, it appears, by a desire to make white people of today complicit in what was going on then. And once again it serves mainly to drive a wedge between the two races and create new resentments and hatreds that didn’t exist before, thereby delaying if not eliminating the time in which both races can co-exist peacefully and without the biases that stand in the way of that. LOL. A single instance of lynching, or black church bombing, is “exponentially more agitation” than what goes on today. The hatred that drives those actions was far, far more common in the early and mid 20th century than it is today. Murdering and raping and brutality, the vast majority of which in our history (including the 20th century) victimized black people, drove a wedge between races, not liberals like MLK Jr. and other Civil Rights activists fighting for equal treatment and equal opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/443 "2017-08-31T12:15:18Z")
“Racial agitation”, when investigated, appears to largely consist of finally calling out longstanding racism that has gone unchallenged (or at least unchallenged by anyone the people engaged in it cared about). It’s like criminals complaining that everything was fine until some busybody called the police and ruined everything. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/444 "2017-08-31T12:33:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > . . . I remember that one set of parents to a friend of mine that was contemplating an interracial marriage were concerned not out of a sense that it was wrong, but out of a sense that the union would face difficulties that wouldn’t arise in a marriage between people of similar race. > . . . > Obviously the difficulties did not sink the marriage, and in my view may have made the union stronger; they have a very “us against the world” vibe. > > But I say all this only to say that your summary is not precisely fair. > [@Bricker](#): > > . . . do you think society continues to exhibit racist attributes? > . . . It seems that you’d agree that an interracial couple could face difficulties that a homogenous-race would not. . . . > > . . . when the subject is the latent racism still extant in society, I’d say that Democrats have a more pessimistic view than Republicans. From my rather limited observation of US politics and society, a goodly number of folks in the conservative camp like to tout the notion that racism is no longer a significant problem in the US. (At least, not since a fine, upstanding black man pulled himself up by his bootstraps and succeeded to the highest seat in the land, to the unanimous approval of all.) I wonder what percentage of said folks overlaps with those who express “concern” that a mixed-race family might face “difficulties” from society. > [@Bricker](#): > > . . . but conservatives are hardly lily-wh… er, blameless, to be sure . . . You know it’s harder to dislike you when you do things like this? ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/445 "2017-08-31T12:35:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > . . . liberals don’t care a whit what consequences arise from whatever it is that they’re reflexively reacting to, they just want what they want and consequences be damned. . . > . . . liberals are never satisfied and never stop finding new ways to agitate. > . . . they’ve done everything they can to heighten tension, anger and resentment between the two races and are now beginning to demand new kinds of segregation, only this time based on the premise that these new kinds of integration are intended to protect black people and black culture. . . . > > The politics of liberals is the politics of division, villainization, anger, hate and intolerance, and 50 years of its dominant social influence has brought the country to the state it’s in now. Good job, liberals! Although not a resident of the US, I do generally identify as liberal in my political views. It’s sobering to realize just what a horrible person I am. > [@Kimstu](#): > > The “spit upon” bit is a [thoroughly debunked urban legend](https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/03/nobody-spat-on-american-gis/). > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Bullshit! I witnessed it myself and knew soldiers it happened to. Damn straight! John James Rambo wouldn’t lie to us. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/446 "2017-08-31T13:07:18Z")
Based on polls like this one: > **[In U.S., 87% Approve of Black-White Marriage, vs. 4% in 1958](https://news.gallup.com/poll/163697/approve-marriage-blacks-whites.aspx)** > > Representing one of the largest shifts of public opinion in Gallup history, 87% of Americans approve of marriage between blacks and whites, up from 4% in 1958. Older Americans are the least likely to approve. in which approval for interracial marriage is significantly larger for black people than whites, I’m hopeful that the result in the other poll in which a larger percentage of blacks than whites found it “bad” was an outlier. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/447 "2017-08-31T14:20:03Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > You know it’s harder to dislike you when you do things like this? The pun or the concession? ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/448 "2017-08-31T14:31:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The pun or the concession? Primarily the pun, but the concession sure doesn’t hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/449 "2017-08-31T14:58:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I never said no blacks were agitating. :dubious: As you would put it, HAW HAW HAW. If you don’t like it when _I_ draw a distinction between “a debunked urban legend about antiwar protesters routinely spitting on returning Vietnam vets just for being soldiers” and “undisprovable assertions that some Vietnam vet got spat on sometime for some reason”, you shouldn’t be occupying such a glass house of transparent evasions yourself. What you said was _“And now we have the issue of Confederate soldiers being brought up, as usual not by blacks but by would-be SJWs agitating on their behalf”._ And then: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > > [@Kimstu](#): > > > > I was just pointing out your (as usual) mistaken assertion that blacks aren’t “bringing up” this issue. I showed you evidence that in fact, black Americans have been publicly objecting to Confederate memorialization for a long time. > > Yes, you showed a few small isolated incidents that occurred decades ago to counter my claims about what’s been going on recently on a national basis. > > > [@Kimstu](#): > > > > And we have (as in currently) plenty of black individuals and organizations “agitating about” Confederate statues on their own “behalf” these days too. As in, for example, this NAACP statement and this one and this one. > > Yes, currently…after being stirred up by white SJWs, like I said. In other words, **Starving Artist** , when blacks protest against Confederate memorials **without** a mainstream national movement to back them up, you dismiss it as “a few small isolated incidents that occurred decades ago”. (Apparently you are under the illusion that the few protests I showed you cites for are the only black protests against Confederate memorials that ever happened, which of course is nonsense.) And then when blacks protest against Confederate memorials **with** a mainstream national movement to back them up, you dismiss it as just “being stirred up by white SJWs”. Tell me, **Starving Artist** , is there any possible way that black Americans **can** protest that would persuade you that they have agency and that their views matter? If blacks protest while the white majority mostly ignores their concerns, you dismiss them as insignificant and unimportant. Whereas if blacks protest while the white majority begins to seriously share their concerns, you dismiss them as unthinking dupes “being stirred up by white SJWs”. [QUOTE=Starving Artist] The reason I don’t drill down seeking exactness on the minutia related to the points I’m making is…wait for it…they don’t @$#%&\* matter! [/quote] When you’re telling lies about facts, it **does** “@$#%&\*” matter. [QUOTE=Starving Artist] The subject of what happened at Harvard is that it’s an example of the ways that modern SJW-ism is seeking to create rather than eliminate racial segregation. [/QUOTE] Except that that’s total bullshit. The event in question, **which people of all races were welcome to attend** (hint: that’s not how racial segregation works), was about **everybody** in the community being able to celebrate the unique experience and achievements of black Harvard students. Your freaking out about this is as bizarre as getting upset when a Norwegian Students’ Association invites their campus community to their Syttende Mai celebration, or the Ancient Order of Hibernians throws a community St Patrick’s Day party. Why does a happy and universally welcoming celebration of ethnic identity and heritage only strike you as threatening and “divisive” when the ethnicity in question happens to be black? If you really want to encourage racial unity and solidarity, why don’t you try going to a school’s Black Commencement celebration and cheering for the students as they reflect on their experiences and celebrate their achievement? Contrary to what you imagine, it’s not a segregated event and not about promoting racial segregation. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/450 "2017-08-31T16:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Starving Artist > Bullshit! I witnessed it myself and knew soldiers it happened to. When? Where, what airport? Army or Marine? What happened next? Which local news outlet reported on it? What did you do in response? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JKS3WXR2dqY/maxresdefault.jpg "You're A Lying Sack of Crap") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKS3WXR2dqY) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/451 "2017-08-31T17:02:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Posts like yours make wonder why I even bother with this place. Seriously. ![](https://media.giphy.com/media/2ept7eRuyq98s/200.gif) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/452 "2017-08-31T17:08:22Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > Damn straight! John James Rambo wouldn’t lie to us. I know one guy who claimed to see it… but he’s a fucking liar anyway. He also pushes “Ayrabs dancing in New York streets after 9-11” and other things. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/453 "2017-08-31T17:12:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Posts like yours make wonder why I even bother with this place. Seriously. Simple solution: Go away. Find a group of like-minded folks on Stormfront. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/454 "2017-08-31T17:20:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Based on polls like this one: > > [In U.S., 87% Approve of Black-White Marriage, vs. 4% in 1958](http://www.gallup.com/poll/163697/approve-marriage-blacks-whites.aspx) > > in which approval for interracial marriage is significantly larger for black people than whites, I’m hopeful that the result in the other poll in which a larger percentage of blacks than whites found it “bad” was an outlier. That’s a weird desire. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/455 "2017-08-31T19:17:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Based on polls like this one: > > [In U.S., 87% Approve of Black-White Marriage, vs. 4% in 1958](http://www.gallup.com/poll/163697/approve-marriage-blacks-whites.aspx) > > in which approval for interracial marriage is significantly larger for black people than whites, I’m hopeful that the result in the other poll in which a larger percentage of blacks than whites found it “bad” was an outlier. I’ve heard older Whites who grew up in the South in the 1930s through 1950s say, “Well, a White man marrying a Black woman is better than a Black man marrying a White woman”. Too bad that survey didn’t enquire along that line. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/456 "2017-09-01T08:53:17Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s a weird desire. That \*\*is \*\*a weird desire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487.md?page=22)