# Trump voters prefer Jefferson Davis as president to Barack Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487 "2017-08-23T21:33:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/101 "2017-08-24T15:51:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, no – I get that. But you don’t: Trump’s mocking was insulting to everyone who shares that disability, with a leavening of cover in which he could claim it was taregted at one guy. How many people is that? Let’s add in the people who don’t share the disability but recognize the bullying for what it was. How many was that? However many it was, Trump didn’t need their votes to win. > > Clinton’s insult covered 62,984,825 people. She needed some of them to vote for her in order to win. I get what you’re saying but I think you’re drifting wayward. I think even you as a conservative would have to acknowledge that the proverbial shoe fit for many of Trump’s supporters. That doesn’t mean that it was a wise thing to say, but I doubt that the people she was referring to were really, truly offended by what she said. It seems that they’re pretty much beneath being offended, as evidenced by the fact that many of them took to twitter practically wearing the label of #deplorable on their sleeve as some sort of badge of honor. At worst, the comment made Clinton appear out of touch with white suburban and rural America but the comment was probably more of a symptom and not a disease. Had it been someone with a little more, oh, ‘country road cred’ or ‘coal mine cred’, I doubt it would have been problematic. Joe Biden could have said it and it would have been an example of ‘Ah, just Joe shootin’ off his mouth again. There is never anything wrong with pointing out to voters when they are voting for a Nazi. You just can’t expect to win a race if that’s the only thing you’ve got going for you. Clinton was unliked in part because frankly she didn’t really like Trump voters on a personal level. Obama didn’t either, but he was better at brushing them aside and communicating with them even when it was clear that he didn’t have many takers. Clinton stayed where she felt comfortable and that’s probably where she lost the race, and she didn’t really lose by that much anyway. I don’t want to have another discussion on what went wrong for Hillary but I’m just rejecting the idea that Democrats will lose races if they don’t take a stand against bigots – they absolutely must take a stand against Republican bigotry. They just have to offer items on the menu than “You’re a racist” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/102 "2017-08-24T15:56:30Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Here’s the full Clinton deplorables quote. > > This is certainly not intended to be insulting to every Trump voter, but I don’t even see how it could be interpreted as insulting every Trump voter. There are many Trump voters who would say that they voted for Trump because, “the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change,” or some set of reasons that is reasonably close to that. And lest we forget: many Trump voters are absolutely, positively bigoted and seem proud of that fact. The idea that we can’t talk about this is absurd. We absolutely can and should talk about it. I can agree that just talking about how bad Trump and his voters are won’t win anything, but by that same token, if Democrats are looking to inspire a diverse group of voters to the polls, I can’t think of anything more uninspiring than being timid in the face of a growing national crisis. That’s a good way to lose a generation of progressives for sure. One of the Democrats problem over the past 10-20 years is that they’ve lacked a spine. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/103 "2017-08-24T15:57:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t see that these types of polls do much other than grab headlines. These people hate Obama, and this is just another way of saying that. But, of course, we already knew that. Remember the Obama = anti-Christ polls? I don’t accept that it means those people wish to bring back chattel slavery to the US, unless the poll asks that question explicitly. Well, if you asked them “Would you rather bring back chattel slavery to the US, or bring back Obama as president?” I’m not so sure they’d pick Obama. But yeah, polls like this are kind of dumb. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/104 "2017-08-24T15:58:26Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Here’s the full Clinton deplorables quote. And some, I’m sure, are good people. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/105 "2017-08-24T16:03:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, true shit. Her insult covered Trump supporters, calling half of them phobic and the other half so desperate for change they’d support a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic campaign. Half of the 62,984,825 were so insulted by that unfair characterization that they voted for Trump along with the actual racists and bigots just to prove her wrong? Were these some of the same “good people” that marched along side the neo-nazis in Charlottesville? Are these the same people who after 8 months of Trump’s presidency would overwhelmingly cast their vote for Trump again today? You claim to have held your nose and voted for HRC, yet you repeatedly defend the indefensible. Perhaps it’s just an occupational hazard for you, or, perhaps the lesson you’ve yet to learn, is that when people tell you who they are, it behooves you to listen rather than make excuses for them. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/106 "2017-08-24T16:19:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Why do “Christians” like you want to go to hell? > > The things described as deplorable are also sins. You will go to hell if you keep doing them. > > And you’re bragging about it. So sayeth the Lord your God. Praise be his name. Forever and Ever. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/107 "2017-08-24T16:22:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do you see any path by which a candidate can get elected and tell (substantially) the truth, while not insulting the bulk of his opposition’s voters? > > In my view, Obama did it. So I disagree with your apparent view that it’s not possible. The reality is that Romney stretched or did not tell the truth more often and harder than Obama. > **[The Obama-Romney debate fact-check: Who told the biggest whoppers?](https://theweek.com/articles/471748/obamaromney-debate-factcheck-who-told-biggest-whoppers)** > > Mitt Romney stretched the truth in the Denver debate. So did President Obama. A look at how various nonpartisan fact-checkers scored the debate > [@Bricker](#): > > Why would you not endorse his path – the guy that won – and stop praising the path used by the candidate that failed to win? Because until recently one expected more honesty, but just a touch of evil from a winning candidate, you are defending a “kick in the pants” of evil guy over a candidate that was more honest in the past election. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/108 "2017-08-24T17:33:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why would you not endorse his path – the guy that won – and stop praising the path used by the candidate that failed to win? Because the day I vote for someone as intellectually and morally bankrupt, someone who lies that often, someone that disgusting and harmful to American politics… That’s the day I figure out how to tie a fucking _noose_. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/109 "2017-08-24T18:23:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s a troll poll, and we shouldn’t feed it. You can’t just ignore the trolls once they start electing Presidents. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/110 "2017-08-24T18:31:41Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I get what you’re saying but I think you’re drifting wayward. I think even you as a conservative would have to acknowledge that the proverbial shoe fit for many of Trump’s supporters. That doesn’t mean that it was a wise thing to say, but I doubt that the people she was referring to were really, truly offended by what she said. It seems that they’re pretty much beneath being offended, as evidenced by the fact that many of them took to twitter practically wearing the label of #deplorable on their sleeve as some sort of badge of honor. At worst, the comment made Clinton appear out of touch with white suburban and rural America but the comment was probably more of a symptom and not a disease. > > Had it been someone with a little more, oh, ‘country road cred’ or ‘coal mine cred’, I doubt it would have been problematic. Joe Biden could have said it and it would have been an example of ‘Ah, just Joe shootin’ off his mouth again. There is never anything wrong with pointing out to voters when they are voting for a Nazi. You just can’t expect to win a race if that’s the only thing you’ve got going for you. Clinton was unliked in part because frankly she didn’t really like Trump voters on a personal level. Obama didn’t either, but he was better at brushing them aside and communicating with them even when it was clear that he didn’t have many takers. Clinton stayed where she felt comfortable and that’s probably where she lost the race, and she didn’t really lose by that much anyway. I don’t want to have another discussion on what went wrong for Hillary but I’m just rejecting the idea that Democrats will lose races if they don’t take a stand against bigots – they absolutely must take a stand against Republican bigotry. They just have to offer items on the menu than “You’re a racist” I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. Taking a stand against bigots is proper. Declaring that half your opponent’s supporters are bigots is the distraction. Just attack the bigots. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/111 "2017-08-24T18:33:10Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Because the day I vote for someone as intellectually and morally bankrupt, someone who lies that often, someone that disgusting and harmful to American politics… That’s the day I figure out how to tie a fucking _noose_. OK, OK, you’re you’re the most virtuous guy since Vinny Virtue. Calm down. No one said “vote for.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/112 "2017-08-24T18:36:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You claim to have held your nose and voted for HRC, yet you repeatedly defend the indefensible. Those actions are quite consistent with one another. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/113 "2017-08-24T18:46:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Clinton’s insult covered 62,984,825 people. She needed some of them to vote for her in order to win. It didn’t “cover” all of them. She was pretty specific as to who belongs in that basket. She _didn’t_ include “people who hate Hillary/Democrats as a default option.” Those folks _chose_ to climb in the basket. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/114 "2017-08-24T18:48:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What if you have to make a choice between losing elections and not insulting every single person who might lean towards supporting your opponent So you’re saying politicians should ignore people like Neo-Nazis and Klansmen and just let them have their fun? Don’t actively endorse them. But don’t actively oppose them either. Just make vague statements that don’t offend anyone and avoid taking sides. Is that what you want from a President? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/115 "2017-08-24T18:49:15Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Yes, to be clear, there is not a Trump voter that I’m aware of on the SDMB, that I haven’t once thought to myself “Christ, what a fucking asshole,” in a thread not related to being a Trump voter. > > I haven’t met every Trump voter in the country, but I would suspect the vast majority of them are assholes and bigots. I would further hazard the guess that people who _still_ support Trump are all huge gaping assholes, bigots and horrible people. I guess I could allow how a shut-in who only is able to get his or her news second hand from a racist caregiver might still be a Trump supporter, but not a racist asshole; other than that though, huge racist assholes. > > ETA: there are conservatives who did not support Trump and there are conservatives who have been actively critical of Trump, some in the US senate. I am not calling those people racists assholes. > > But you support Trump, other than diminished capacity, yeah you are a huge racist asshole. Or they are tired of people like you. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/116 "2017-08-24T18:55:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Because killing innocent people is not a primary tenet of communism. It’s just an unfortunate practical side effect. Also communists don’t hold rallies in the US for people to get upset about. Unfortunate? That’s an understatement. Starving Artist is correct. Pro communism doesn’t even raise an eyebrow. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/117 "2017-08-24T19:01:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Half of the 62,984,825 were so insulted by that unfair characterization that they voted for Trump along with the actual racists and bigots just to prove her wrong? > > Were these some of the same “good people” that marched along side the neo-nazis in Charlottesville? > > Are these the same people who after 8 months of Trump’s presidency would overwhelmingly cast their vote for Trump again today? > > You claim to have held your nose and voted for HRC, yet you repeatedly defend the indefensible. > > Perhaps it’s just an occupational hazard for you, or, perhaps the lesson you’ve yet to learn, is that when people tell you who they are, it behooves you to listen rather than make excuses for them. You folks have a serious case of shootthemessengeritis. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/118 "2017-08-24T19:15:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You folks have a serious case of shootthemessengeritis. It is not a fallacy to shoot the messenger when the messenger gets its points from poisoned wells. And repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/119 "2017-08-24T19:24:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. Taking a stand against bigots is proper. Declaring that half your opponent’s supporters are bigots is the distraction. Just attack the bigots. Clinton did preface her gross generalization with the actual words “just to be grossly generalistic.” It’s funny – her remarks are far more empathetic and understanding of her opponent’s voters’ motivations than anything I ever heard Trump say about her voters. Obama’s 2008 remarks about people bitterly clinging to guns and religion were treated as insulting, too. But he was sympathetic to the people he was describing. He just thought they were wrong, and was trying to figure out why. People apparently don’t like being patronized. Especially people with ignorant or bigoted opinions, maybe. The question is: how does one argue against ignorance and bigotry without being patronizing? Is it worth trying to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/120 "2017-08-24T22:19:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So you’re saying politicians should ignore people like Neo-Nazis and Klansmen and just let them have their fun? Don’t actively endorse them. But don’t actively oppose them either. Just make vague statements that don’t offend anyone and avoid taking sides. > > Is that what you want from a President? That’s not what I said. But notice how you re-frame the debate to focus on the worst of the cases? Clinton’s words were “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic – you name it.” You mention neo-Nazis and Klansman. How about others? People who want a stricter immigration policy. Is it wise to call them all xenophobic? People who think there’s a concern in forcing bakers to design custom cakes for same-sex marriages – are they all bigots? People who oppose affirmative action programs – are they all racists? Answering “yes” to those questions is something I sense you’re probably not too unwilling to do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487.md?page=7)