# Trump voters prefer Jefferson Davis as president to Barack Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487 "2017-08-23T21:33:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/121 "2017-08-24T22:32:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why would you not endorse his path – the guy that won – and stop praising the path used by the candidate that failed to win? Trump won because he’s a fool and a monster, and monstrous fools is what the right wing wants and is composed of. I have no interest in being one, and turning into one would just be another kind of losing. And it’s silly to claim that Clinton lost by being insulting, when Trump was far more so. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/122 "2017-08-24T22:32:25Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Why would it have to be? People who didn’t vote for Trump probably like Barack Obama, so they’re not going to choose a guy they don’t recognize.\*\* If you asked people the same question with a totally made up name, support for the random name would be disproportionately concentrated among Trump voters.\*\* > > (FWIW, if I had to guess the percentage of Americans who could recall two basic facts about Jefferson Davis and do it on command, I’d guess maybe 15%. There isn’t a whole lot of common knowledge.) I hope that is the case, but I don’t know. This is a different poll from 2016. > **[Trump, Clinton Still Have Big SC Leads - Public Policy Polling](https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/polls/trump-clinton-still-have-big-sc-leads/)** > > PPP’s new South Carolina poll continues to find Donald Trump with a wide lead in the state. He’s at 35% to 18% each for Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, 10% for John Kasich, and 7% each for Jeb Bush and Ben Carson. What’s striking about Trump’s support is... > [@](#): > > In fact 38% of Trump voters say they wish the South had won the Civil War to only 24% glad the North won and 38% who aren’t sure. Overall just 36% of Republican primary voters in the state are glad the North emerged victorious to 30% for the South, but Trump’s the only one whose supporters actually wish the South had won. Caveats: This was a poll of South Carolina republicans (who are going to be more conservative and pro-confederacy than republicans from Iowa, Nevada or New York). Trump voters were the only primary voters who wanted the confederacy to win. I’m not sure what % of Rubio or Kasich voters felt the confederacy should have won but I’m sure it is far smaller. I think I saw this poll when it came out a year ago, and I recall other primary voters were less likely to feel this way (for Kacish supporters it was a very lopsided view that the north should have won). Overall, even among SC voters they preferred the north win the civil war 36-30. And of the 2/3 who are undecided or wanted the south to win, it was probably more because they hate liberals in NY & CA telling them what to do. But again, to all the conservatives here If a poll came out that showed 45-20 that democrats in America prefer Maduro (Venezuela’s president who has collapsed the economy and is taking on dictatorial powers) or Stalin as the president over Trump in the US, I wouldn’t consider you out of line for calling those people deplorable. That would be a very rational response to finding out that a large % of people prefer a human rights abusing dictator just so long as they are on the same team. I definitely wouldn’t do what Bricker is doing, and start saying ‘you need to learn that respecting people’s opinions is important’. No, not all opinions are the same. If someone wants Stalin or Hitler to lead this country, their opinions are not valid the way people who prefer Romney or Rubio over Hillary or Obama are. Insulting people for wanting a dictator in charge is not unfair, wrong or immoral. The fact that many of those people are too ignorant to know Davis supported slavery and treason only kindof absolves them. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/123 "2017-08-24T22:34:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > While they might be deplorable, what is this going to accomplish other than to be satisfying? They’ll vote to reelect Trump. > > And if Democrats want to stop pandering to deplorables, they need to have the courage of their convictions and just stop pandering to deplorables. I recall Clinton herself was guilty of that on more than one occasion before 2016. Democrats aren’t really lecturing here from a position of moral strength. They aren’t haters, but they’ve always been willing to pander to haters. > > Democrats also need to make up their minds about what it means to be deplorable. As a general rule, anything Barack Obama ever said by definition cannot be deplorable, at least not for 20 years or so. So if someone says, “My faith says that marriage is between a man and a woman” that’s not deplorable. Or if someone says any of the things Michelle Obama said here: > > That can't be deplorable either. There are a certain percentage of them that aren’t redeemable. The understand what they are and wholeheartedly embrace it. I don’t want those people anywhere other than a party in the Far Right (I’d like them out of the Republican party - but I hope Democrats NEVER pander to them). There are a certain percentage that are just historically and culturally illiterate. They have heard of Jeff Davis, have a vague idea that he was President, but he has to be better than Obama. (The shame here is that Davis was a terribly ineffectual President - horrible - which was not completely his fault - the States Rights folks decided to repeat the mistakes of the Articles of Confederation and gave the Confederacy no power - it all sat in the states. Which meant coordinated war efforts were a joke). These people need education, not insults. There are a percentage that already know they made a mistake and are beginning to look at Obama like the left now looks at George W Bush - he wasn’t nearly as terrible as people thought he was…we now have proof. Those are the people the Democrats should be wooing. There is a basket of deplorables. The Trump voters who don’t belong in that basket are beginning to show that they don’t want to catch the stench. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/124 "2017-08-24T22:51:07Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > There are a certain percentage of them that aren’t redeemable. The understand what they are and wholeheartedly embrace it. I don’t want those people anywhere other than a party in the Far Right (I’d like them out of the Republican party - but I hope Democrats NEVER pander to them). > > There are a certain percentage that are just historically and culturally illiterate. They have heard of Jeff Davis, have a vague idea that he was President, but he has to be better than Obama. (The shame here is that Davis was a terribly ineffectual President - horrible - which was not completely his fault - the States Rights folks decided to repeat the mistakes of the Articles of Confederation and gave the Confederacy no power - it all sat in the states. Which meant coordinated war efforts were a joke). These people need education, not insults. > > There are a percentage that already know they made a mistake and are beginning to look at Obama like the left now looks at George W Bush - he wasn’t nearly as terrible as people thought he was…we now have proof. Those are the people the Democrats should be wooing. > > There is a basket of deplorables. The Trump voters who don’t belong in that basket are beginning to show that they don’t want to catch the stench. Yes, this. A certain segment of the right can and should be written off by the democrats. But some others of them can be appealed to, and they should be appealed to. But the voluntarily brainwashed, constantly angry, white nationalist base that makes up 30-50% of the GOP electorate can and should be written off by the democrats. That doesn’t mean we don’t get to call them out on their behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/125 "2017-08-24T22:53:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Why would you not endorse his path – the guy that won – and stop praising the path used by the candidate that failed to win? > > Trump won because he’s a fool and a monster, and monstrous fools is what the right wing wants and is composed of. I have no interest in being one, and turning into one would just be another kind of losing. > > And it’s silly to claim that Clinton lost by being insulting, when Trump was far more so. “The guy that won,” in my quote is Obama. You edited that line out, didn’t you? > [@Bricker](#): > > In my view, Obama did it. So I disagree with your apparent view that it’s not possible. > > Why would you not endorse his path – the guy that won – and stop praising the path used by the candidate that failed to win? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/126 "2017-08-24T22:56:27Z")
Just curious: will there come any point at which you might say, “Perhaps this strategy of fearlessly insulting half the voters in the country is not going as well as it seemed it would?” If Trump is re-elected in 2020? Or is that a time do just double down? Again? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/127 "2017-08-24T23:02:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And also because anti-Nazism is perceived, rightly, in my opinion, as a left-wing political issue and not a moral one. Were the killing of innocent people truly the engine of left-wing opposition to Nazism, why is it so silent about Communism… The difference is that there are [a number of communities](http://www.ic.org/directory/communes/) around the world, and even in the US that practice and promote communism without being the least bit violent, bigoted or repressive. They may not be sustainable long term and may only work for relatively small groups, but they are relatively harmless. Communism isn’t evil, hateful and repressive, totalitarianism is evil, hateful and repressive. The problem is that in the process of forcing everyone to be communists you generally end up with totalitarianism. But there is nothing about free healtcare and education, a social safety net, and a general postive attitude towards sharing that necessitates pogroms and gulags. Nazism and white supremacy on the other hand is impossible to support without advocating violence and the repression of those deemed unworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/128 "2017-08-24T23:22:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just curious: will there come any point at which you might say, “Perhaps this strategy of fearlessly insulting half the voters in the country is not going as well as it seemed it would?” > > If Trump is re-elected in 2020? Or is that a time do just double down? Again? We are insulting half of Trump’s voters, not half of all voters. Also the GOP and Trump has shown that insulting people doesn’t cost you votes. If everyone the GOP and Trump has insulted refused to vote for them, they’d get 5% of the vote. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/129 "2017-08-24T23:38:47Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Or they are tired of people like you. I don’t have a problem with conservative voters being “tired” of liberal voters and grumbling about them and trying to elect responsible conservative candidates to thwart the liberal voters’ political aims. As a liberal voter, I do the same back at them. I mean, that’s just par for the course in a democracy. I have a **big** problem with conservative voters being so irrationally overinvested in their exasperation with liberal voters **that they voluntarily support for high political office the most irresponsible unqualified corrupt buffoon of a demagogue that they can find because he’s the one who pisses off the liberals the most.** Being “tired of people like me” is not a valid excuse for deliberately deciding to shoot the whole country in the nuts by supporting an obstreperously incompetent narcissist as its Chief Executive. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/130 "2017-08-25T00:57:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s not what I said. > > But notice how you re-frame the debate to focus on the worst of the cases? Clinton’s words were “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic – you name it.” > > You mention neo-Nazis and Klansman. > > How about others? People who want a stricter immigration policy. Is it wise to call them all xenophobic? People who think there’s a concern in forcing bakers to design custom cakes for same-sex marriages – are they all bigots? People who oppose affirmative action programs – are they all racists? > > Answering “yes” to those questions is something I sense you’re probably not too unwilling to do. I’ve already addressed that point in this thread. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, reasonable people can differ on issues. But not every difference is reasonable. > > If you debate about what the tax rate should be or how much we should be spending on infrastructure, there are two sides to those issues. > > But if we’re discussing race relations and some Klansman takes the position that the best policy is to lynch any negro who gets uppity, you don’t agree to disagree on the issue. That person is wrong. And you tell him he’s wrong. And the President of the United States should be telling him he’s wrong. > > Same thing with the Nazis. There’s no problem to which the correct solution is killing twelve million people. There’s only one correct position on Nazis: you’re against them. > > And Jefferson Davis. I don’t care how stupid they are, every American knows two basic facts about Jefferson Davis: he was in favor of slavery and he was in favor of declaring war on the United States. So which of those positions would make him a better President than Barack Obama? > > Some opinions are stupid. I have no problem having a reasonable debate over issues like affirmative action or anti-discrimination or illegal immigration. And I don’t think everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi. But some people really are Nazis. Literal Nazis with swastikas and “Heil Hitler” salutes. They’re not a liberal fantasy; they’re out marching in the streets. These people really exist and they really are deplorable. And somebody that would rather have Jefferson Davis as President than Barack Obama? Yes, that person is deplorable too. I don’t know if they’re deplorably offensive or deplorably ignorant or deplorably racist. But there’s no non-deplorable option on the list. Republicans need to remember that there are moral standards that rise above partisan politics. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/131 "2017-08-25T01:13:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve already addressed that point in this thread. > I have no problem having a reasonable debate over issues like affirmative action or anti-discrimination or illegal immigration. And I don’t think everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi. Are half Trump’s voters Nazis? > [@](#): > > Republicans need to remember that there are moral standards that rise above partisan politics. Yes, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/132 "2017-08-25T01:14:58Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > We are insulting half of Trump’s voters, not half of all voters. > > Also the GOP and Trump has shown that insulting people doesn’t cost you votes. If everyone the GOP and Trump has insulted refused to vote for them, they’d get 5% of the vote. Answer my question, please: will there come any point at which you might say, “Perhaps this strategy of fearlessly insulting half the voters in the country is not going as well as it seemed it would?” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/133 "2017-08-25T01:57:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Answer my question, please: will there come any point at which you might say, “Perhaps this strategy of fearlessly insulting half the voters in the country is not going as well as it seemed it would?” **What** alleged “strategy of fearlessly insulting half the voters in the country”, Counselor? It has been patiently explained to you more than once that insulting half of **all Trump supporters** is not the same as insulting half of **all voters**. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/134 "2017-08-25T02:13:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > People who want a stricter immigration policy. Is it wise to call them all xenophobic? Did she call them xenophobic ? I understand that she called xenophobic the xenophobic. And if somebody says xenophobic are deplorable and you feel insulted, that doesn’t mean she thinks you’re xenophobic. It means YOU think you’re xenophobic. The same goes with those other groups. - - And I’m not too surprised with this Jefferson Davis thing, we all saw that there are lots of people who would prefer the actual Hitler as president over anybody. None of them voted Hitlery… ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/135 "2017-08-25T02:27:25Z")
For me, at least, it’s not a strategy. It’s unmitigated revulsion. Perhaps that simply betrays my lack of political savvy, but nonetheless… there is a percentage of trump supporters who are in fact deplorable. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/136 "2017-08-25T02:28:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just curious: will there come any point at which you might say, “Perhaps this strategy of fearlessly insulting half the voters in the country is not going as well as it seemed it would?” > > If Trump is re-elected in 2020? Or is that a time do just double down? Again? I don’t know how many times I have to say it: Start treating voters like you own a restaurant…not a shitty independent Portland bookstore. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/137 "2017-08-25T02:33:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Are half Trump’s voters Nazis? Show me where somebody said that. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/138 "2017-08-25T02:37:38Z")
Is there actually any evidence that Hillary Clinton even wanted votes from those deplorables? Somehow I think she’s more picky than that. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/139 "2017-08-25T03:02:47Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > In 2017, you guys prefer someone who defends slavery and committed armed treason against the US as president. > > How does calling you out on that behavior make us snowflakes? > > Again, if you polled democrats and they said 45/20 (with the other 35% unsure) that they preferred Joseph Stalin as president to Donald Trump, would that make you snowflakes for getting upset? > > “What a bunch of babies conservatives are, upset just because we want a mass murdering tyrant as president” Just caught this, and I just have to ask…what the fucking fukfuk are you talking about? I was calling **Bricker** a snowflake, because 10 months later, he’s STILL crying about Clinton calling shitty people shitty. If you wanna be somebody, if you wanna go somewhere, you better wake up and pay attention. Or you can be an idiot. It’s ok, \*\*Okrahoma \*\*and \*\*Clothahump \*\*need peers, otherwise no one will be able to sit on the jury when they inevitably go to trial for hitting a dirty lib’rul. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487/140 "2017-08-25T03:03:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Answer my question, please: will there come any point at which you might say, “Perhaps this strategy of fearlessly insulting half the voters in the country is not going as well as it seemed it would?” If only that was what happened…keep fucking that goat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-voters-prefer-jefferson-davis-as-president-to-barack-obama/794487.md?page=8)