# Trump vs Clinton in the General Election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 17, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989 "2016-05-17T13:19:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/502 "2016-06-12T21:50:54Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes, it would be depressing if true. Yeah I was going to point that too, it is still a good number of Americans that are swallowing the Trump bullshit but that was just a good number of Republicans, I do hope though that a bit more of them will remember now that just a few weeks ago Trump told us that his Muslim ban was “just a suggestion”. The huuuge flip flopper is at it again patting himself in the back implying hard that the ban is there again (never mind that an immigration and tourism ban would not had done a thing in this case) and I hope (because I expect just a bit than more than half of all Americans will not vote for him still) that a few more Republicans will notice how gross his flip flopping opportunism is. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/503 "2016-06-12T22:14:09Z")
I dunno, if we really have to talk about political implications, given the demographics of both shooter and victims, I think its effects will be more complex than, say, 9/11, if only because of how the candidates can approach the issue publicly. You might as well say it will mobilize gay and Muslim voters, or show the Bernie or bust-ers what’s at stake. I also don’t think there’s any way to say with confidence that Trump will win anything because of this. For one thing, I’m not sure he has the subtlety needed to play both sides of the aisle on circumstances like this. You could argue that all it’ll do is harden the two already opposing sides, and have a wash on undecideds. It’s way too early to say, but I’m inclined to think that. After all, it wasn’t good straight white people who were shot, so it won’t “hit home” for some voters. Hell, actual kids were murdered a few years back, and what did that do, politically? ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/504 "2016-06-12T22:45:01Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > See, that’s just depressing. The guy who can talk tough but has _no idea_ what he’s on about is seen as better on an issue than someone with tons of actual policy experience high in the executive branch, merely because the tough-talker is willing to shit out of his mouth every couple of minutes. I’m so glad I left the USA, it seems to be getting collectively more and more stupid. I hope the people of Florida will buck against America’s slide into Idiocracy. Presidential politics really have nothing to do with this situation. There is nothing any president could have done to prevent this. Obama is regarded by paranoid patriots as the Gun Grabber in Chief. So after eight years of grabbing guns we have the worst gun massacre in US history. A president who wants to take all the guns away couldn’t stop this from happening. (Please bear in mind that the preceding ridiculousness is for the purpose of the hypothetical. Obama’s actual gun control measures to date have consisted of giving speeches about how shitty it is that all he can do is give speeches.) The FBI (F standing for Federal) investigated the shooter three years ago for links to Islamic terrorism. They couldn’t find enough evidence of a link. Is the solution here a president who tells them to arrest someone anyway just in case? It seems like you would need a new category of crime for that situation. You’d need the authority to police what people are thinking rather than what they are doing because having an arsenal of deadly weapons is not a crime in the US. So all the president has to do is convince Congress to outlaw certain thoughts and these massacres can be prevented, right? There’s also this presidential candidate who “knows the truth” about Muslims and their plans to take over America. He’d kick out the ones coming here from overseas and he’ll watch over any of the remaining ones. This shooter is an American from New York but since obvious Muslim name means obvious Muslim sympathies he’d be subject to intense scrutiny in the Trump administration. And that would have prevented this massacre because the FBI would be following every Muslim and everyone descended from Muslims and everyone who has ever even looked at a Quran in their lives. They’d follow these people all the time everywhere and eventually catch them doing something illegal (but not buying an assault weapon and tons of ammo - that isn’t illegal even if you are a Muslim). There’s only 3.3 million Muslims in the US. Once all the Mexicans have been kicked out it should be easy to keep watch over the Muslims. So that’s all the next president has to do. Just put 3.3 million citizens under constant watch because we know they’re going to do something eventually. But it would sure be easier if all these people could be gathered into one place somehow. And instead of having them just sit idle they could be put to work somehow. And above the gates an inspirational slogan like “work will set you free!” And just like that America would be a hundred percent safe from this ever happening again. The president could set this up pretty easily, no? Or could it be that the president, any president, has absolutely no power to do anything in this situation? The Second Amendment trumps everything, even Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/505 "2016-06-12T22:57:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How do you know anyone was calling The Donald? This is just silly. In a country the size of the US something sad or bad is usually happening. You can’t wake someone up for every event just so they can tweet some sympathy. > > You think Mayor Rahm is woken up every time someone gets shot in Chiraq? I was posting about the fact that his original tweet, at 5 am, had no condolences in it, then it took him nearly 4 hours more to get around to the ‘praying for the families’ tweet. Had zip to do with when the actual event occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/506 "2016-06-12T23:36:15Z")
I don’t think his “Appreciate the congrats” tweet is playing asn’y well as he hoped. Full tweet: Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don’t want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart! Was he really getting a ton of congratulation on this shooting? I’m sure this plays well with the Clutching Pearls crowd, but will it help in in the general election? ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/507 "2016-06-12T23:37:06Z")
He’s still playing to the primary voters. He doesn’t really understand how to do anything else. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/508 "2016-06-13T03:31:39Z")
Liberals are doing their best to help Trump by deciding that an attack by a foreign terrorist organization is about gun control. Tom Brokaw was especially rich. We should say “no more”. No, not “no more ISIS”, not “no more radical ideologies that preach rape, murder, and slavery”, but no more mass shootings. Because that’s what this was, a simple mass shooting. Just like the one in France. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/509 "2016-06-13T03:31:48Z")
How does anyone think this man is any more intelligent than the average Joe? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/510 "2016-06-13T03:35:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Liberals are doing their best to help Trump by deciding that an attack by a foreign terrorist organization is about gun control. > > **Tom Brokaw was especially rich. We should say “no more”**. No, not “no more ISIS”, not “no more radical ideologies that preach rape, murder, and slavery”, but no more mass shootings. Because that’s what this was, a simple mass shooting. Just like the one in France. Instead, we should say “Radical Islamic terrorism”. That’ll stop it just like magic. Of course, you realize that the demands for utterance of “Radical Islamic terrorism” is just right-wing political correctness. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/511 "2016-06-13T03:37:36Z")
I’ll settle for “ISIS” and “terrorist attack”. This is not a simple mass shooting. It’s the worst in history because this guy was getting guidance from outside. This wasn’t just some crazy dude who wanted publicity or to end it all. This was a well planned and executed attack. Gun control can certainly be central to this debate, even though I disagree with it. But those who are talking about it as if it’s just another mass shooting and want to talk about gun control but not an anti-ISIS strategy are divorced from reality. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/512 "2016-06-13T03:38:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Liberals are doing their best to help Trump by deciding that an attack by a foreign terrorist organization is about gun control. > > Tom Brokaw was especially rich. We should say “no more”. No, not “no more ISIS”, not “no more radical ideologies that preach rape, murder, and slavery”, but no more mass shootings. Because that’s what this was, a simple mass shooting. Just like the one in France. No way is any of this “helping Trump.” He’s being exposed as a lightweight inarticulate buffoon. Granted, it’s taking some time, but no one can say he inspires confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/513 "2016-06-13T03:38:50Z")
Actually, I’m skeptical that ISIS really gave this guy any meaningful help. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/514 "2016-06-13T03:39:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’ll settle for “ISIS” and “terrorist attack”. This is not a simple mass shooting. It’s the worst in history because this guy was getting guidance from outside. This wasn’t just some crazy dude who wanted publicity or to end it all. This was a well planned and executed attack. I must have missed some of the news updates today. Where are you getting this? How much planning does it take to buy some good weapons and shoot up a crowded venue.? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/515 "2016-06-13T03:57:08Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Actually, I’m skeptical that ISIS really gave this guy any meaningful help. Yeah, I tend to think ISIL capitalized on it after they read a CNN report saying the guy mentioned them. (In case anyone’s wondering why I use ISIL, I refuse to sully the name of a respectable Egyptian goddess by associating her with a bunch of extremists.) How highly planned does it have to be to walk into a club with a couple of weapons and a ‘device’ (whatever that happens to be)? Ooh he rented a car. Must be ISIL. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/516 "2016-06-13T03:59:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This guy was getting guidance from outside. [snip] Ummm, yeah. Cite? Although I’m betting it’s just from your head. You heard he pledged allegiance to ISIS, and assumed they’d been coaching him all along (supplying him with “Maps to the Gays …and celebrity homes”). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/517 "2016-06-13T04:07:41Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I must have missed some of the news updates today. Where are you getting this? How much planning does it take to buy some good weapons and shoot up a crowded venue.? It doesn’t take much guidance to run 100 meters, but to do it faster than anyone else ever has takes training. This is the worst mass shooting in history. it was well planned and well executed. The FBI was already watching this guy because he was talking to some very bad people. He’s been connected with a radical imam: > **[Orlando gunman tied to radical imam released from prison last year, say law...](https://www.foxnews.com/us/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources)** > > The gunman who murdered at least 49 people in a Florida nightclub early Sunday morning was a follower of a controversial gang leader-turned-bank robber who was released from prison last year despite warnings from prosecutors that he would recruit... But look, this HAS to be ISIS. Because if it’s not, it actually is “radical Islam”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/518 "2016-06-13T06:30:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It doesn’t take much guidance to run 100 meters, but to do it faster than anyone else ever has takes training… Wait, the attack was carried out by Usain Bolt? Boy, did I miss _that_ news! ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/519 "2016-06-13T06:42:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It doesn’t take much guidance to run 100 meters, but to do it faster than anyone else ever has takes training. > > This is the worst mass shooting in history. it was well planned and well executed. The FBI was already watching this guy because he was talking to some very bad people. He’s been connected with a radical imam: > > [Orlando gunman tied to radical imam released from prison last year, say law enforcement sources | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html?intcmp=hpbt1) > > But look, this HAS to be ISIS. Because if it’s not, it actually is “radical Islam”. Why must it be radical islam or ISIS? Why can’t it “simply” be a stupid, hate filled idiot who uses religion to justify to himself his hatred? IOW - he could be acting as an individual - his actions don’t need to be affiliated to any cause or group or greater purpose… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/520 "2016-06-13T07:08:30Z")
Who influenced him to do this? I’m noticing a reticence about attributing motives here. We saw no such reticence when Gabby Giffords was shot. As a matter of fact, right-wing rhetoric was directly blamed for the shooting. But this guy gets in league with a radical imam, nothing to see here. It’s as if you want to lose. But I see where this is going now. If Trump wins, see it won’t have been an “election” that was lost, but merely a poll. And Trump won’t actually be in charge, he’ll… aw, I give up. We all know if Trump’s elected that liberals will rush to blame America for being hateful and sick and stupid. THAT particular broad brush is just fine to use. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/521 "2016-06-13T08:01:08Z")
In another thread, it was mentioned the father once ran for president of Afghanistan on a pro-Taliban ticket. If that’s true – and I’ve not seen that mentioned anywhere else yet – then one can only imagine what the shooter’s home life must have been like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989.md?page=27)