# Trump vs Clinton in the General Election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 17, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989 "2016-05-17T13:19:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/582 "2016-06-13T22:02:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > England? England is being attacked by Irish extremists in countries all over the world? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/583 "2016-06-13T23:40:02Z")
Outsmarted me again, **SA**. A cookie. One. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/584 "2016-06-14T01:54:38Z")
One will do just fine. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Yersenia\_Pestis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e495f1/32.png) [@Yersenia\_Pestis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yersenia_Pestis)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/585 "2016-06-14T02:00:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, most of the problem where Israel is concerned stems from Muslim opposition to and violence toward it. And I’m totally unaware of governments all over the world spending billions of dollars and instituting vast security measures to protect themselves from Irish or Indian or Israeli terrorism. The conflicts you mention were relatively local and had little effect on most countries around the world, whereas Islamic terrorism is a global problem that is growing worse by the day. You know what’s also terrible and gets worse by the day? Trump, his racist supporters and the Republican Party in general. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/586 "2016-06-14T02:14:15Z")
I don’t know that any of Trump’s racist supporters are getting any worse than they’ve always been, but neither Trump nor most of his supporters are racist according to any meaningful definition of the term. He said bad things about illegal immigrants. This in no way means he’s negatively biased against Mexicans in general, nor against other Hispanics no matter where they’re from. If you were to make comments condemning the illegal behavior of certain members of the Hell’s Angels or various white supremacist groups, would that mean you’re racist against whites? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/587 "2016-06-14T02:19:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t know that any of Trump’s racist supporters are getting any worse than they’ve always been, but neither Trump nor most of his supporters are racist according to any meaningful definition of the term. He said bad things about illegal immigrants. This in no way means he’s negatively biased against Mexicans in general, nor against other Hispanics no matter where they’re from. > > If you were to make comments condemning the illegal behavior of certain members of the Hell’s Angels or various white supremacist groups, would that mean you’re racist against whites? It was Eddie Murphy or Richard Pryor or some comedian in the late 70s/early 80s that made the observation: “I always knew white people were racist, what surprised me is that y’all are racist against _other white people_.” So, I don’t know about the Hells Angels or whatever, but yes, it’s quite possible to be whites to be racist against whites. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/588 "2016-06-14T02:37:06Z")
Well, leaving aside the question of white-on-white racism (or whether it even exists outside the context of a black comedian’s 30-year-old joke), is the condemnation of criminality on the part of Hell’s Angels or white supremacists racist against all whites, or just a lamentation about these groups’ illegal behavior? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/589 "2016-06-14T03:16:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t know that any of Trump’s racist supporters are getting any worse than they’ve always been, but neither Trump nor most of his supporters are racist according to any meaningful definition of the term. He said bad things about illegal immigrants. This in no way means he’s negatively biased against Mexicans in general, nor against other Hispanics no matter where they’re from. Things is, nowadays that is not fooling moderate and establishment Republicans, here is the Weekly Standard: [http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-mans-not-for-changing/article/2002774](http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-mans-not-for-changing/article/2002774) > [@](#): > > After virtually everyone in public life condemned his comments on Judge Gonzalo Curiel, Trump would not apologize or retract them, saying in a cowardly statement only that he regrets they were “misconstrued.” But that same day, in a campaign conference call, Trump had instructed his surrogates and aides to intensify the attacks on the judge. Either Trump doesn’t recognize his own bigotry or he thinks doubling down on it is a winning strategy. > > **Many Republican leaders back Trump anyway. Their reasoning is, well, complicated: Trump may be a bigot and a boor, but he’s our bigot and he’s our boor, so he must be president.** > > Some of them—perhaps most of them—understand that this argument is self-discrediting and self-debasing. They know it’s indefensible to accept and promote the Trump that they’ve seen over the past year, so they pretend that he might change—giving more weight to a 15-minute speech he read from a teleprompter than the multitude of disqualifying moments they’ve observed throughout his candidacy. “Using a prepared text last night and not attacking any other Americans was a good start,” McConnell said on June 8, reiterating his support for Trump. McConnell said he’s holding out hope for a “more thoughtful Trump,” which is like wishing for warmer ice. > > All in all, it’s a triumph of hope over experience. Trump isn’t going to change. And a party that works to elect him deserves its fate. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/590 "2016-06-14T05:23:46Z")
> [@](#): > > All in all, it’s a triumph of hope over experience. Trump isn’t going to change. And a party that works to elect him deserves its fate. Only problem is, if they somehow manage it, we’re _all_ fucked. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/591 "2016-06-14T06:04:53Z")
It pains me to have to give Drumpf credit for being right about anything, and it’s doubly excruciating when it’s a [stinging criticism of Hillary Clinton:](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/06/13/trump_my_actions_will_help_lgbt_community_more_than_hillary_clintons_words.html) > [@](#): > > Hillary Clinton can never claim to be a friend of the gay community as long as she continues to support immigration policies that bring Islamic extremists to our country who suppress women, gays and anyone who doesn’t share their views. > > She can’t have it both ways. She can’t claim to be supportive of these communities while trying to increase the number of people coming in who want to oppress them. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/592 "2016-06-14T06:59:29Z")
Now, Slacker, I know you’re whooshing us (or at least Starving Artist) with this. If I’m wrong, exactly which policies that invite extremist Muslims to our country does she support? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/593 "2016-06-14T07:12:44Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Now, Slacker, I know you’re whooshing us (or at least Starving Artist) with this. If I’m wrong, exactly which policies that invite extremist Muslims to our country does she support? I’m not whooshing anyone. I’m a progressive atheist [of the Sam Harris variety,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uPXf-nyG6Q) and I abhor the Muslim religion more than other religions because of its proclivity for repression and violence (yes, Christianity has been just as bad in the past, but not today in 2016). We are certainly not as bad off as Europe, where they have welcomed Muslim immigrants with open arms, yet large percentages of those immigrants and their descendants hold [ugly, retrograde views about feminism and gay rights.](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law) And I do believe Hillary would like us to be more like Europe in this respect. (Whereas I would like us to be more like Europe in many \*other \*respects, but not this one.) That said, this doesn’t mean I’m going to vote for Drumpf. Jeebus, no. :eek: I just wish Democrats would wake up when it comes to so-called “Islamophobia”. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/594 "2016-06-14T07:31:43Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I’m not whooshing anyone. I’m a progressive atheist [of the Sam Harris variety,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uPXf-nyG6Q) and I abhor the Muslim religion more than other religions because of its proclivity for repression and violence (yes, Christianity has been just as bad in the past, but not today in 2016). We are certainly not as bad off as Europe, where they have welcomed Muslim immigrants with open arms, yet large percentages of those immigrants and their descendants hold [ugly, retrograde views about feminism and gay rights.](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law) And I do believe Hillary would like us to be more like Europe in this respect. (Whereas I would like us to be more like Europe in many \*other \*respects, but not this one.) > > That said, this doesn’t mean I’m going to vote for Drumpf. Jeebus, no. :eek: I just wish Democrats would wake up when it comes to so-called “Islamophobia”. :dubious: So what do you propose doing about Muslim immigration into the US, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/595 "2016-06-14T07:45:29Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So what do you propose doing about Muslim immigration into the US, exactly? Legal scholars seem to believe that stopping it cold, just based on religion, would fail a constitutional test. So how about just ending all immigration from predominantly Muslim countries? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/596 "2016-06-14T08:11:00Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Legal scholars seem to believe that stopping it cold, just based on religion, would fail a constitutional test. So they’re of the opinion that constitutional protections apply to non-citizens? [This article on _Slate_ appears to contradict that claim](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2001/09/do_noncitizens_have_constitutional_rights.html). It explains that immigration law is administrative law as opposed to criminal law, and therefore _“Congress has nearly full authority to regulate immigration without interference from the courts”_. So perhaps stopping it cold would be legally doable after all. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/597 "2016-06-14T08:11:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Legal scholars seem to believe that stopping it cold, just based on religion, would fail a constitutional test. So how about just ending all immigration from predominantly Muslim countries? that we could do and should do. Its a shame that a guy like Trump does add a few things to the debate, even tho the rest of the hypothetical operation of a Trump presidency would probably curtail the constitution, and certainly hurt our luster in the world. And the economy, trade, etc. I’m 100% with you on progressive apologism for Islam. I think the far-left academy holds a ton of blame for this, for teaching kids dogma that sees everything as white-on-brown imperialism, and that capitalism is evil, views which are far to the left of leading mainstream Democrats, but seem to be prevalent among Berners and other regressives. Critical Race theory taught in schools by the likes of Cornel West does too. This is what has indoctrinated young Democrats and older Peter Pan hippy types hold onto. Given the legal precedent for things like the China Exclusion Act, etc. I’m sure something along the lines of restricted immigration with significant Islamist political/societal presence could be done. It should be. Definitely the State Dept. Watchlist, Warning List, etc. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/598 "2016-06-14T08:30:28Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I’m 100% with you on progressive apologism for Islam. I think the far-left academy holds a ton of blame for this, for teaching kids dogma that sees everything as white-on-brown imperialism, and that capitalism is evil, views which are far to the left of leading mainstream Democrats, but seem to be prevalent among Berners and other regressives. Critical Race theory taught in schools by the likes of Cornel West does too. This is what has indoctrinated young Democrats and older Peter Pan hippy types hold onto. Definitely (including my mom). It’s _Salon_, Noam Chomsky, etc. (And that crowd actually thought Chomsky acquitted himself well in his exchange with Sam Harris. :smack:) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/599 "2016-06-14T09:21:25Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Legal scholars seem to believe that stopping it cold, just based on religion, would fail a constitutional test. So how about just ending all immigration from predominantly Muslim countries? I think we should generally avoid doing the things that help ISIS and do what they want, which is to frame the world as Muslims against everyone. The way to win this is to make sure that the many millions of Muslims who have no interest in murder see us as more attractive allies than the extremists. Like it or not, there are good and decent people who nonetheless have some reason to see us as their enemy, but who still dislike extremists, and if we essentially publicly announce that they are the enemy, which this policy would do, we’re pushing them over to the enemy’s side. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/600 "2016-06-14T09:24:18Z")
When your enemy is stupid and irrational, worrying about what they want is actually just playing into their hands. Policies should be based on what benefits us, not on what we think people with addled minds might want. As far as Clinton vs. Trump goes, she’s cleaning his clock on this issue. And I can’t believe he made it all about him. “Congratulate me for being right.” Who says that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989/601 "2016-06-14T09:41:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > When your enemy is stupid and irrational, worrying about what they want is actually just playing into their hands. Policies should be based on what benefits us, not on what we think people with addled minds might want. > > As far as Clinton vs. Trump goes, she’s cleaning his clock on this issue. And I can’t believe he made it all about him. “Congratulate me for being right.” Who says that? Right, and making sure that Muslims around the world see ISIS as the enemy and not us is the best thing for us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-in-the-general-election/754989.md?page=31)