# Trump vs. Clinton: worst choice for President ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 11, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692 "2016-03-11T21:28:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/101 "2016-03-16T19:48:43Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Former Senator. Former Secretary of State. With experience in the legal, legislative and executive arenas, Hillary Clinton would be the most qualified Presidential candidate since Thomas Jefferson. How do you figure? Jefferson’s own Secretary of State, Madison, served longer in that role than Clinton did, after serving in Congress for as long as Clinton did; once Madison became President, Senator-turned-Governor Monroe served as _his_ Secretary of State for longer than Clinton ever did – and served as Secretary of War to boot! – and once Monroe became President, _his_ Secretary of State (who held the job longer than Clinton did) was former Senator John Quincy Adams – which brings me to the guy I started typing this post to mention: _his_ Secretary of State, Henry Clay, who’d served as Speaker of the House before serving in the Senate for longer than Clinton did. We had [a thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=706949) a while back on this; what makes you single out Jefferson? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/102 "2016-03-16T20:01:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Kasich’s experience and accomplishments trump hers easily. None of her resume items are impressive when you take into account performance. Kasich on the other hand has excelled in Congress and as a governor. He has more domestic executive experience (and experience in restricting women’s bodily control), but she has far more in-depth foreign policy experience (since Sec of State pretty much trumps anything except Prez for foreign policy experience). That doesn’t fit “trump hers easily”, in my view, since she has plenty of experience, and he does too. It’s just different types of experience. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/103 "2016-03-16T20:18:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He has more domestic executive experience (and experience in restricting women’s bodily control), but she has far more in-depth foreign policy experience (since Sec of State pretty much trumps anything except Prez for foreign policy experience). Far more foreign policy experience? Kasich was on the House Armed Services Committee for 18 years. I’m not saying it beats 4 years as Secretary of State, but let’s not act like he’s Sarah Palin staring at Russia from her house. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/104 "2016-03-16T20:20:53Z")
Hillary is a perfectly fine candidate. I wouldn’t put her up on Mt. Rushmore yet, but she’ll be a good Obama third and fourth term. I see only one side of the equation off its rocker this year. Remember, G.W. Bush v. Kerry didn’t get too many on either side excited. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/105 "2016-03-16T20:21:21Z")
Ok, we are really doomed if Trump becomes president. [http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/trump-foreign-policy-adviser-220853](http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/trump-foreign-policy-adviser-220853) > [@](#): > > **Trump: I consult myself on foreign policy** > > … > > Asked on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” who he talks with consistently about foreign policy, Trump responded, “I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I’ve said a lot of things." > > “I know what I’m doing and I listen to a lot of people, I talk to a lot of people and at the appropriate time I’ll tell you who the people are,” Trump said. “But my primary consultant is myself and I have a good instinct for this stuff." :rolleyes: Yeah, like if the trade wars you want to have with several nations will not lead to everyone retaliating and affecting most American jobs negatively. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/106 "2016-03-16T20:37:48Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > Far more foreign policy experience? Kasich was on the House Armed Services Committee for 18 years. I’m not saying it beats 4 years as Secretary of State, but let’s not act like he’s Sarah Palin staring at Russia from her house. Fair enough – I’ll modify it to “significantly more”, but it’s just an opinion. Sec of State is full-time foreign policy, while a committee assignment is a few hours a week at most. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/107 "2016-03-16T20:47:32Z")
Even less if your name is Rubio. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/108 "2016-03-16T23:30:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Fair enough – I’ll modify it to “significantly more”, but it’s just an opinion. Sec of State is full-time foreign policy, while a committee assignment is a few hours a week at most. I’ll actually give Clinton a huge margin on foreign policy, as being on a committee is not foreign policy experience. Foreign policy experience is conducting foreign policy. The Armed Services Committee looks into foreign policy and military issues in much the same way as a think tank does. So Kasich can claim to have gained a lot of knowledge about foreign policy, but even Clinton’s first lady experience is more real foreign policy than what Kasich has done. In Kasich’s favor though is real executive experience, and he can point to real accomplishments. Plus he’s willing to buck his party at times and hasn’t backed away from it, while Clinton has disowned almost all of her old heretical views. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/109 "2016-03-17T00:33:39Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > How do you figure? > > Jefferson’s own Secretary of State, Madison, served longer in that role than Clinton did, after serving in Congress for as long as Clinton did; once Madison became President, Senator-turned-Governor Monroe served as _his_ Secretary of State for longer than Clinton ever did – and served as Secretary of War to boot! – and once Monroe became President, _his_ Secretary of State (who held the job longer than Clinton did) was former Senator John Quincy Adams – which brings me to the guy I started typing this post to mention: _his_ Secretary of State, Henry Clay, who’d served as Speaker of the House before serving in the Senate for longer than Clinton did. > > We had [a thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=706949) a while back on this; what makes you single out Jefferson? Because Jefferson was obviously more qualified. Also ignorance. I guess I could move the goalpost forward to Lincoln, but I think I’ll play it safe and say FDR. I’ll address Kasich in a later post. Qualification isn’t everything, but it might be fun to compare people in the same ballpark. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/110 "2016-03-17T00:48:56Z")
resume isn’t everything, but a guy who has been successful at multiple levels has a pretty good chance of continuing that success at the next one. Clinton will probably be about as good a President as she was a Senator and Secretary of State. Not disastrous, not remarkable. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/111 "2016-03-18T03:19:45Z")
Daily Show dings her nicely on her gaffe-proneness: > **[The Daily Show skewered all of Hillary Clinton’s recent gaffes. It’s hard to...](https://www.vox.com/2016/3/16/11244294/daily-show-hillary-clinton-gaffes)** > > Hillary Clinton said so much dumb stuff this week that The Daily Show turned it into a game show. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/112 "2016-03-18T03:49:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > resume isn’t everything, but a guy who has been successful at multiple levels has a pretty good chance of continuing that success at the next one. Clinton will probably be about as good a President as she was a Senator and Secretary of State. Not disastrous, not remarkable. And that would make her the best America has any right to expect at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/113 "2016-03-18T04:27:14Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > **Worst choice ever?** > > Not even close. Off the top of my head > > 1920 - Harding vs. Cox. What is your objection to Cox? According to his wiki article: > [@](#): > > One of the better known analyses of the 1920 election is in author Irving Stone’s book about defeated Presidential candidates, They Also Ran. **Stone rated Cox as superior in every way over Warren Harding, claiming the former would have made a much better president; the author argued that there was never a stronger case in the history of American presidential elections for the proposition that the better man lost.** ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/114 "2016-03-18T04:57:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No one has been in the public eye longer without most people not really knowing what she believes. Who cares what she personally “believes” about anything? The important thing is to know what her specific policy aims are, which groups and causes she’s partnering with, and where she draws the line on overstepping executive authority. All of which things ISTM are both much more clearly known and much less alarmingly extreme in the case of Clinton than for any of the leading Republican candidates. I agree with the other posters who point out that if the Republicans resent having to choose between a quite typical pragmatic-centrist Democratic-machine politician like Hillary Clinton and a festering nutbag, then they should have come up with leading Republican candidates who are **not** festering nutbags. It’s not Clinton’s fault that your party’s broken. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/115 "2016-03-18T04:59:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Who cares what she personally “believes” about anything? The important thing is to know what her specific policy aims are, which groups and causes she’s partnering with, and where she draws the line on overstepping executive authority. So is she for TPP or against it? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/116 "2016-03-18T05:39:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So is she for TPP or against it? Irrelevant. It will be approved or rejected before the next President takes office. Clinton won’t refuse to sign it if she’s the President tasked with signing it. There now, that wasn’t so hard, was it? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/117 "2016-03-18T05:51:48Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Former Senator. Former Secretary of State. With experience in the legal, legislative and executive arenas, Hillary Clinton would be the most qualified Presidential candidate since Thomas Jefferson. You’re skipping over perhaps the most qualified President ever: • served as a private in the War of 1812; • 2 year term in the Pennsylvania House of Representatives; • 10 years in the House of Representatives; • 2 years as chairman of the House Judiciary Committee; • 1½ years as US Minister to Russia; • 11 years in the Senate; • 4 years as Secretary of State; • 3 years as US Minister to the United Kingdom. Fellow gentle-Dopers, I give you: [James Buchanan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Buchanan)! With all that wealth of experience, unmatched by any candidate before or since, he must have had a stellar career as President! Right? I mean, experience always translates to presidential success, right? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/118 "2016-03-18T05:57:19Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Who cares what she personally “believes” about anything? The important thing is to know what her specific policy aims are, which groups and causes she’s partnering with, and where she draws the line on overstepping executive authority. The last is a form of belief, is it not? All the rest is about specific things that are now more or less knowable; what about when something unanticipated arises? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/119 "2016-03-18T05:59:41Z")
Although, I have to admit, the point about the other side offering only festering nutbags is pretty compelling. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/120 "2016-03-18T11:46:30Z")
> [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](#): > > Nothing? > > [ul] > [li]A proven failure at foreign policy[/li] > [li]No grasp of real-world economics[/li] > [li]And even her _supporters_ describe her as dishonest and untrustworthy[/li][/ul] > > Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play? [quote=“Jack\_Batty, post:7, topic:748692”] Let me guess … Benghazi! I have no guess at this one. In what way? Well, shit, with supporters like that, who needs Trump? [ul] [li]This entire OP is just sour grapes that the GOP guy is a fucking buffoon.[/li][/QUOTE] Close. She pushed for the bombing of Libya and the decapitation of its state, leaving chaos and Daesh where there had been a moderately prosperous secular country. [li]I don’t know what OP is talking about either. But her Wall Street affinities do seem to bespeak a lack of concern with sustaining demand and consumption.[/li] [li]OP has this one pegged. Remember, she has low approval, high negatives, but it’s all “baked in.” :rolleyes:[/ul][/li] (Whoa, this is up to 120 posts!?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692.md?page=7)