# Trump vs. Clinton: worst choice for President ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 11, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692 "2016-03-11T21:28:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/141 "2016-03-19T13:04:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Until we have a successful Republican Presidency, I have to take that one. However, Ike, Nixon, Reagan and Bush 41 all had foreign policy records to be proud of. Yeah, that little adventure in Somalia worked out well for Bush 41. And Lebanon for Reagan. And bombing Cambodia for Nixon. That’s just off the top of my head; I’m sure if I put my mind to it, there is more than enough embarrassment to go around. I’ll give you Ike, but by today’s standards, he was a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/142 "2016-03-19T13:07:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Yeah, that little adventure in Somalia worked out well for Bush 41. And Lebanon for Reagan. And bombing Cambodia for Nixon. That’s just off the top of my head; I’m sure if I put my mind to it, there is more than enough embarrassment to go around. I’ll give you Ike, but by today’s standards, he was a Democrat. Somalia was fine under Bush 41. Clinton expanded the mission but didn’t have the guts to see it through once he did. I don’t BLAME him per se, he didn’t have much foreign policy experience and Les Aspin was a dud as Defense secretary. But Bush 41 understood mission creep and it wouldn’t have happened had he been reelected. Our troops were there to feed hungry Somalians, not to fight warlords. Bombing Cambodia, among other things, was an attempt to get better terms to end the Vietnam war. It certainly worked better than anything LBJ was doing. Lebanon, well yeah, Reagan screwed up, But Reagan’s overall foreign policy legacy is sterling, despite Lebanon and Iran-contra. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/143 "2016-03-19T13:12:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Lebanon, well yeah, Reagan screwed up, But Reagan’s overall foreign policy legacy is sterling, despite Lebanon and Iran-contra. Do I get to hand-wave all the embarrassing, uncited missteps Obama has made? Other than that, he was the Hank Aaron of diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/144 "2016-03-19T13:38:13Z")
To hit home runs requires you to actually get the bat off your shoulders. Obama takes every pitch. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/145 "2016-03-19T13:42:29Z")
To get back on subject, I think that if you polled voters, most would predict that Clinton will have a better foreign policy than Obama, which means that our choices are not the worst ever. The only area I rate Obama higher on than Clinton is maintaining the dignity of the office. He’s good at being President, something which Bill never really mastered and Hillary isn’t any better. The constant lying and rule bending for personal reasons debases the office. And now we hear that she wanted a personal Blackberry issued, even though only the President gets that. But she’s Hillary CLinton, dammit, not some ordinary SecState that has to follow the normal rules! It’s just unseemly. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/146 "2016-03-19T14:00:36Z")
Says the guy whose party is nominating Trump. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/147 "2016-03-19T14:19:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > resume isn’t everything, but a guy who has been successful at multiple levels has a pretty good chance of continuing that success at the next one. Clinton will probably be about as good a President as she was a Senator and Secretary of State. Not disastrous, not remarkable. And I’m willing to vote for that. I’m not wild about Hilary. I think she is a little more dishonest than that typical politician, and is very interested in feathering her nest, and helping her buddies. But she will be a competent president who will mostly be centrist and who has a reasonably good understanding of how things work. Those things include Congress, science, and economics. > [@adaher](#): > > Kasich’s experience and accomplishments trump hers easily. None of her resume items are impressive when you take into account performance. Kasich on the other hand has excelled in Congress and as a governor. But he won’t be in the ballot in the general election. Yeah, the Republicans ran one guy who seems eminently qualified. I disagree with him on some social issues, but like Clinton, i think Kasich would be a perfectly okay president. Too bad we won’t have the chance to vote for him. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So what happens when Clinton debates Trump? it will be very ugly. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/148 "2016-03-19T17:50:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > To hit home runs requires you to actually get the bat off your shoulders. Obama takes every pitch. This is nonsensical – Obama’s advances on Iran and Cuba have been extremely bold, in terms of political courage, as was his refusal to commit troops to Syria, despite the clamor for it – conventional politics would have demanded the opposite in all three examples. If Obama had acted as a “typical” president, he would have done very little beyond continuing sanctions on Iran, he would have done nothing on Cuba, and he would have invaded Syria when the clamor arose. It’s a very, very good thing for America that he went against the grain on all three. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/149 "2016-03-20T01:21:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Take away GWB and the GOP foreign policy record is vastly superior to the Democrats. We had one catastrophic President. The Democrats have had two, plus the most recent guy, who did manage to “not do stupid shit” but didn’t actually accomplish anything. As his possible successor has pointed out, foreign policy has to be about more than that. 😕 The Democrats had LBJ–& JFK, I guess, who was probably short of catastrophic himself, so I don’t know. The GOP have had Nixon _and_ GWB. I don’t get your numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/150 "2016-03-20T01:24:24Z")
Limiting myself to 20th and 21st Century races: 1924: Coolidge vs. Davis (to be fair, LaFollette was running) 1928: Hoover vs. Smith 1972: Nixon vs. McGovern 1976: Carter vs. Ford 1980: Reagan vs. Carter 1984: Reagan vs. Mondale 1988: Bush vs. Dukakis 2004: Bush vs. Kerry ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/151 "2016-03-20T03:01:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is nonsensical – Obama’s advances on Iran and Cuba have been extremely bold, in terms of political courage, Domestically, maybe, although it is his second term. However, to continue to use sports analogies, instead of just taking every pitch this time the President said, “I forfeit the game, you win. See, now we’re both happy!” As I said before, diplomacy is easy if you just give the other side 90% of what they want. > [@](#): > > It’s a very, very good thing for America that he went against the grain on all three. Given Clinton’s record, she will be very different on foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/152 "2016-03-20T03:47:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Trump is a liar, but there’s no question in anyone’s mind that we’re seeing the real Donald Trump. But I’ve said in other threads that when Trump inevitably disappoints, there’ll be hell to pay. > > There is a middle ground though. A good, competent leader can reduce some of the anger out there. > [@adaher](#): > > Trump has authenticity, as in his personas not a poll tested acting job. He does however, fail the honesty test. No. Trump is a sales guy. He pitches his persona to the specific crowd. Here is Trump playing another character. It’s different: Trump discusses Orson Wells’ Citizen Kane with Errol Morris: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upC8pX3RY0A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upC8pX3RY0A) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/153 "2016-03-20T10:48:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Domestically, maybe, although it is his second term. However, to continue to use sports analogies, instead of just taking every pitch this time the President said, “I forfeit the game, you win. See, now we’re both happy!” > > As I said before, diplomacy is easy if you just give the other side 90% of what they want. Fantasy-world stuff. > [@](#): > > Given Clinton’s record, she will be very different on foreign policy. We’ll see. Hopefully not. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/154 "2016-03-22T04:06:42Z")
Clinton now supports extending ACA to illegals: > **[Hillary Clinton just backed healthcare for immigrants in the U.S. illegally](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-pc-clinton-democratic-debate-undocumented-immigrant-healthcare-20151013-story.html)** > > Over the last year, California politicians have been blazing a trail many doubted the rest of the country would follow: offering free healthcare to hundreds of thousands of people in the country illegally. Joe Wilson’s office just called, he wants an apology. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/155 "2016-03-22T04:22:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Clinton now supports extending ACA to illegals: > > [Hillary Clinton just backed healthcare for immigrants in the U.S. illegally](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-pc-clinton-democratic-debate-undocumented-immigrant-healthcare-20151013-story.html) > > Joe Wilson’s office just called, he wants an apology. Well, it is clear that Republicans like him do not think that those are human beings. And their kids are even less so then. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/156 "2016-03-22T04:23:26Z")
Human beings are not entitled to ACA. American citizens and legal residents are. Maybe we should extend ACA to Chinese residents? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/157 "2016-03-22T04:26:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Human beings are not entitled to ACA. American citizens and legal residents are. Maybe we should extend ACA to Chinese residents? As Trump would say, sorry, but no one should die on the streets as some Republicans want. Of course he will round them up and take them out, but in the meantime I guess he will help. IIUC any efforts on this front will be left to the states anyhow, so we can also add then the point that Republicans like him then are tossing state rights under the bus. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/158 "2016-03-22T04:42:32Z")
People die in the streets all over the world. We’re only responsible for the Americans that do so. But anyway, the point wasn’t so much to debate the merits as to demonstrate how extreme the Democrats have become on the immigration issue. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/159 "2016-03-22T04:49:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > People die in the streets all over the world. We’re only responsible for the Americans that do so. :dubious: **No,** sir. We’re responsible for all Americans **and** all **in America** who do so. The richest industrialized nation in the world has no excuse conceivable whatsoever for letting **anyone** die in its own streets. Unless they die of gunshot-wounds, which is of course a Second Amendment thing and therefore untouchable. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/160 "2016-03-22T04:57:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: **No,** sir. We’re responsible for all Americans **and** all **in America** who do so. The richest industrialized nation in the world has no excuse conceivable whatsoever for letting **anyone** die in its own streets. +1 As for being extreme **adaher** , you really need to remember that a lot of Americans do want to see immigration reform, and that will mean that yes, most of the immigrants we are talking about will then legalize their status and should not be treated like sub humans before that takes place. > **[In U.S., 65% Favor Path to Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants](https://news.gallup.com/poll/184577/favor-path-citizenship-illegal-immigrants.aspx)** > > Most U.S. adults, 65%, continue to support allowing immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally to remain in the U.S. and become citizens after meeting certain requirements over time. Hispanics are more likely than whites or blacks to favor the plan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692.md?page=9)