# Trump vs. Clinton: worst choice for President ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 11, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692 "2016-03-11T21:28:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/161 "2016-03-22T05:21:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: **No,** sir. We’re responsible for all Americans **and** all **in America** who do so. The richest industrialized nation in the world has no excuse conceivable whatsoever for letting **anyone** die in its own streets. Unless they die of gunshot-wounds, which is of course a Second Amendment thing and therefore untouchable. And that sums up the Democrats’ view pretty well. American SOIL is what America is responsible for. American people overseas are no longer our problem. We’ve moved beyond birthright citizenship into “If you’re here, you’re one of us” citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/162 "2016-03-22T05:22:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > +1 > > As for being extreme **adaher** , you really need to remember that a lot of Americans do want to see immigration reform, and that will mean that yes, most of the immigrants we are talking about will then legalize their status and should not be treated like sub humans before that takes place. > > [In U.S., 65% Favor Path to Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants](http://www.gallup.com/poll/184577/favor-path-citizenship-illegal-immigrants.aspx) And anyone who comes here after a certain date(probably 2010 or so) will be deported. Well, actually not if Democrats are in charge, then everyone who comes here is welcome to stay and entitled to taxpayer support. As with every other thing Democrats claim to support, the Grand Moff Tarkin rule applies. And then Democrats have the nerve to marvel at why Republicans don’t want to make deals with them anymore. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/163 "2016-03-22T05:55:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And anyone who comes here after a certain date(probably 2010 or so) will be deported. Well, actually not if Democrats are in charge, then everyone who comes here is welcome to stay and entitled to taxpayer support. As with every other thing Democrats claim to support, the Grand Moff Tarkin rule applies. > > And then Democrats have the nerve to marvel at why Republicans don’t want to make deals with them anymore. And then one should remind you, as you always forget, that a lot of that business of being ineffective is a reason why Trump is beating the same old, same old Republicans. His talking point of being able to make deals that the Republicans can not do because of spite is also one item why the Republicans are worried too about Trump. Too bad that who is he is getting friendly with shows too much about what kind of an authoritarian prejudiced ruler he wants to be. But that should be a moot thing, you do need to remember that you do agree that what Joe Arpaio, a very, very close buddy of Trump, is doing is shaming Arizona, so lets work then to prevent such a fate for the whole United States with Trump. OK? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/164 "2016-03-22T05:56:39Z")
Negotiate with us in good faith then. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/165 "2016-03-22T06:05:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Negotiate with us in good faith then. Bzzzt, wrong item. Too bad this thread is mostly about choosing Trump or Hillary or why other elections had bad choices. So here we have Trump who is making a mockery of those “negotiations” by the Republicans, but has a nasty and wasteful ideas regarding immigrants and press repression, (just like Arpaio) But the other choice is a person that looks more human, regardless of what the Republicans have tried to do for ages with her. And she is more likely to negotiate with the Republicans as her husband did. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/166 "2016-03-22T06:08:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > . . . We’ve moved beyond birthright citizenship into “If you’re here, you’re one of us” citizenship. Not in all ways, but in some. When California tried to enact a law that would deny public education to illegal immigrants, the Supreme Court knocked it down, partly on a constitutional basis, but also because of the horrific implications of millions of children growing up in our cities while denied an education. That would have created an ignorant, violent underclass. Ask yourself if that’s really what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/167 "2016-03-22T06:17:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And that sums up the Democrats’ view pretty well. American SOIL is what America is responsible for. American people overseas are no longer our problem. We’ve moved beyond birthright citizenship into “If you’re here, you’re one of us” citizenship. And again I remind you that but a few months ago you were complaining about Sanders for daring not to fully swallow the dogmas of free trade out of consideration of national interest. It’s obvious you have very little interest in the welfare of the Republic if it comes in conflict with rootless Capital. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/168 "2016-03-22T13:45:07Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/politics/2016-election-poll-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/politics/2016-election-poll-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/index.html) > [@](#): > > On the Republican side, Trump scores a net negative of -33, with a favorable rating of 24% compared to 57% of voters who view him unfavorably. On the Democratic side, Clinton fares only slightly better with a net negative of -21, registering a 31% favorable rating and a 52% unfavorable rating, according to the poll. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/169 "2016-03-22T14:08:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And then Democrats have the nerve to marvel at why Republicans don’t want to make deals with them anymore. Then suffer the consequences at the ballot box then. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/170 "2016-03-22T14:23:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Negotiate with us in good faith then. We don’t negotiate with terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/171 "2016-03-22T16:23:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Negotiate with us in good faith then. Nah. We already tried that. It don’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/172 "2016-03-23T04:03:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > American SOIL is what America is responsible for. American people overseas are no longer our problem. That’s not quite true. If I kill a fellow American over here, I would be subject to penalties by American authorities if they could get hold of me. Cecil even has a Straight Dope column about that IIRC. I believe pedophilia laws also extend to Americans abroad. And then there’s income-tax filing laws. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/173 "2016-03-23T04:07:59Z")
That’s how I was characterizing the left’s position, that all on American soil are our responsibility, but Americans abroad are not. Since they make pretty much no effort to stick up for Americans wrongly jailed abroad. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/174 "2016-03-23T04:15:54Z")
That’s quite an overgeneralization. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/175 "2016-03-23T04:18:14Z")
Not really. By saying that not only can people who come here illegally can stay, but that they are also entitled to government benefits, is to change our doctrine from citizenship to soil. If you’re here, you’re entitled to all benefits of being an American. If you’re not, then you’re someone else’s problem. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/176 "2016-03-23T04:22:57Z")
I don’t find that to be true at all. American Services at the US Embassy here will extend whatever help it can to Americans in trouble. Often there’s not much that can be done apart from contacting someone in the US, but they don’t just say, “Geddoudahere!” I don’t expect that to change. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/177 "2016-03-23T04:24:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not really. By saying that not only can people who come here illegally can stay, but that they are also entitled to government benefits, is to change our doctrine from citizenship to soil. If you’re here, you’re entitled to all benefits of being an American. If you’re not, then you’re someone else’s problem. See post #159. And, see it again. And again. Memorize it, and recite it before, or better yet instead of, your nightly prayers. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/178 "2016-03-23T04:28:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not really. By saying that not only can people who come here illegally can stay, but that they are also entitled to government benefits, is to change our doctrine from citizenship to soil. If you’re here, you’re entitled to all benefits of being an American. If you’re not, then you’re someone else’s problem. "Of all the forms of inequality, injustice in health is the most shocking and the most inhuman because it often results in physical death. I see no alternative to direct action and creative nonviolence to raise the conscience of the nation." - Martin Luther King. It has been my experience that many people that claim to be good actually use laws as justification of clearly inhuman results. The reality is that many Republicans have no conscience. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/179 "2016-03-23T04:52:07Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I don’t find that to be true at all. American Services at the US Embassy here will extend whatever help it can to Americans in trouble. Often there’s not much that can be done apart from contacting someone in the US, but they don’t just say, “Geddoudahere!” I don’t expect that to change. What’s changed is that there are no longer consequences for mistreating Americans. Being able to contact your embassy is costless. Threatening to hit a state in the pocket book for jailing Americans unjustly seems to be off the table these days. Remember when the Soviets jailed Nicholas Daniloff? It created a diplomatic crisis. And it should have. Jailing Americans without cause SHOULD be cause for a diplomatic crisis. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692/180 "2016-03-23T04:55:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not really. By saying that not only can people who come here illegally can stay, but that they are also entitled to government benefits, is to change our doctrine from citizenship to soil. If you’re here, you’re entitled to all benefits of being an American. If you’re not, then you’re someone else’s problem. From whence are you deriving the second part of that (“if you’re not, then you’re someone else’s problem”)? As a corollary, the United States grants citizenship to those born on American soil, but that doesn’t mean that people born abroad can’t be citizens (even natural-born citizens–cf. Cruz and McCain). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-clinton-worst-choice-for-president-ever/748692.md?page=10)