# Trump vs Deep State: A question for Trump supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 30, 2020, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259 "2020-10-30T02:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/41 "2020-11-01T16:30:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s the part I find most confusing about the people you’re describing (and I agree they exist). How can somebody believe every politician is corrupt and dishonest - and then decide Donald Trump is the sole exception? Agree it’s a puzzlement. The best explanation I can offer is a resigned “A pox on both your houses!” or something akin to applauding Hercules as he pulls down the columns of the corrupt temple around this / their ears. It’s not that they think Trump is uncorrupt; it’s that they think Trump will harm people & factions they’ve spent 20 or 30 years building up a grudge to. If all politics is cynical criminality, Trump’s version of F\*\*\* You!! politics at least has the “virtue” of being exactly what it says on the label. See also the many Trump flags & yard signs where the tagline is “No More Bullshit”. The fact reasonably sane people can say with a straight face that Trump is the antithesis of bullshit says an awful lot about badly alienated they have become after 20 or 50 years of listening to mealy-mouthed focus-group driven pandering. Ultimately it amounts to a “nothing left to lose” mentality. Those elites will get hammered, Trump will steal like mad, and everything else will be just the same here for little old me. But I’ll _feel_ so much better watching those elites get burned. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/42 "2020-11-01T16:30:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How can somebody believe every politician is corrupt and dishonest - and then decide Donald Trump is the sole exception? How do people come to believe that Trump is somehow the one politician who they can place their full trust in? He’s not a politician. He doesn’t couch his statements or use weasel words to be ambiguous. He says it as it _is_. Sure, he lies, but he’s lying to the libs, to the fake media, to the deep state, but to _you_ he’s telling the unvarnished truth. It’s basic con 101. And once someone has invested part of their cognitive world into the con, it becomes harder and harder to resist being pulled in further, because to escape or even to try to resist is to have to admit that you were wrong, that you were fooled, that you were the mark. It’s a cognitive black hole, once the event horizon is passed, there is no future that is not Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/43 "2020-11-01T16:41:03Z")
Sure but lots of other conservative politicians say they’re going to stick it to the liberals and make them cry. And cynics say _“Sure he says that. But he’s just another politician like all the rest. He just wants us to vote for him and he’ll say anything.”_ But for some reason they trust Trump. What is it about Trump that makes people believe him when they don’t believe somebody like Ted Cruz who is saying the same things? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/44 "2020-11-01T17:01:21Z")
I find that whenever I ask a Trump supporter a thoughtful question the response is something like GET AWAY FROM ME! DON’T HIT ME! DON’T HIT ME! I’M NOT A RACIST, HOW COME YOU KEEP CALLING ME A RACIST! SOCIALISM! DON’T HIT ME! ANTIFA! ANTIFA! Which is a tactic that anyone with a sibling should recognize, If you get someone in a group and tell them what they want to hear, it’s easy to to get them to follow you. No one ever sets out to join a cult. Once people are in the group and the group is bonded, it’s just a matter of feeding them increasingly extreme beliefs. There is a huge overlap between Trump supporters and adherents of fundamentalist religions of all stripes as well as “prosperity gospel” gospel religions. The first group has basically been indoctrinated against the evils of critical thinking, and the second group is being conned with toxic positivity. Is it really any surprise that people that send large gifts to their pastor believing that God will return it tenfold believe in Trump? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/45 "2020-11-01T17:07:27Z")
Because Ted Cruz isn’t saying “what everyone’s thinking”, and by everyone, they mean themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/46 "2020-11-01T17:31:36Z")
Not a Trump supporter, but I’ll take a guess at the OP problem: Even if Trump can’t beat the Deep State, at least he’s trying. No other president would even try to defeat the Deep State, they’d either never try, or even think the Deep State is good. Biden certainly wouldn’t oppose the State. So, better to have Trump who takes on the Deepers and fails than some president who never tries. Plus, some enemies are just so powerful that you’re an underdog to begin with; there would have been nothing shameful if David had lost to Goliath. That’s my guess as to how Trumpers would answer this. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/47 "2020-11-01T17:41:35Z")
I would agree with this. And the deep state goes deep. It is in NOAA who would dare contradict Trump’s weather forecasting. It is in the CDC who make recommendations and give numbers that contrast to Trump’s declaration that Covid is over. It is in the FDA who are insisting that a vaccine be thoroughly tested before being disseminated widely. It is in the FBI who refuse to arrest liberal politicians. It is in the foreign intelligence who claim that Putin is paying to have our soldiers killed. It is in our domestic intelligence who claim that the Proud Boys and other white supremacists are a threat to our security. There are many elements of the government that are not personally loyal to Trump, some would see this as a good thing, but a Trump supporter only sees how they oppose his every effort to impose his will upon our country. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/48 "2020-11-01T17:43:20Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Not a Trump supporter, but I’ll take a guess at the OP problem: Even if Trump can’t beat the Deep State, at least he’s trying. No other president would even try to defeat the Deep State, they’d either never try, or even think the Deep State is good. Biden certainly wouldn’t oppose the State. So, better to have Trump who takes on the Deepers and fails than some president who never tries. Plus, some enemies are just so powerful that you’re an underdog to begin with; there would have been nothing shameful if David had lost to Goliath. The problem I find with this argument is that Trump didn’t present himself as a person who would just fight the good fight. He promised to win. He said that he would be able to get results that other men couldn’t. He would outfox the Chinese and the Russians. He would get our allies to pay all the money they owed us. He would dictate treaties to other countries and compel them to sign them. He would solve all the problems in the Middle East. He would build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. He would score the game winning touchdown and have sex with the head cheerleader and her hot sister. Trump told his supporters that he was a winner. So I’m wondering how those supporters reconcile Trump’s claims that he can defeat any enemy with his admission that Deep State is still around and still thwarting him. Do they feel that Trump could destroy Deep State is he wanted to? If so, why hasn’t he? Or do they acknowledge that Trump can’t defeat Deep State and by doing so, admit there are some problems that Trump can’t fix? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/49 "2020-11-01T17:45:44Z")
My guess is, they think the Deep State is just too powerful. Trump, their hero, is fighting valiantly but just outnumbered and cut off at every turn. They don’t fault him for not getting it done when he’s just 1 man going up against 100,000 bureaucrats. And they don’t think he could destroy the Deep State just because he wants to. They do believe he WANTS to do everything he promised; he’s just not powerful enough (and hence, they believe, he deserves MORE autocratic powers in order to get the job done.) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/50 "2020-11-01T17:47:11Z")
He _is_ winning. Don’t you see? He built that wall, he has China paying our farmers, he’s made peace with Russia and contained their expansion, he’s got out allies paying for NATO. He has accomplished all the things that he said he would, and more. Why would you doubt that he won’t be able to finish off the deep state? \*Note, this is not my belief, but you asked why a Trump supporter would believe him to be winning in spite of failures. They don’t see those failures, they see him being successful. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/51 "2020-11-01T18:14:35Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It’s like a mid-season episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where they learn that the threat they _thought_ was the Big Bad was actually just a minion of the _ **Real** _ Big Bad. You don’t just stop watching after that episode! I honestly believe this is how a lot of Trump supporters **feel**. (And I emphasize **feel** – there’s very little thought behind it.) It’s entertainment for them. They enjoyed watching Trump’s campaign (the trailer) and they’ve flat-out loved the first four seasons. Thinking about their favorite show ever being cancelled drives them batshit crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/52 "2020-11-01T18:42:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > He has accomplished all the things that he said he would, and more. Why would you doubt that he won’t be able to finish off the deep state? Sure, trusting Trump over what the media is saying covers a lot of ground. But it’s Trump himself who is saying how the Deep State is stealing his re-election away from him. So a Trump supporter has to believe it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/53 "2020-11-01T18:51:42Z")
It seems rather pointless for the rest of us to speculate how a Trump supporter would address this issue if no Trump supporter is willing to show up and do so. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/54 "2020-11-01T18:59:27Z")
We banned nearly all of them, many within the last two years. I mean, the board is a bit echo-chamber-ish. A president who is supported by roughly 40 percent of the American electorate as a whole doesn’t have even one vocal supporter on a message board of 100-200 regulars. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/55 "2020-11-01T20:15:16Z")
We are lacking in flat earthers, 9-11 truthers, anti-vaxxers, and moon conspiracy advocates as well. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/56 "2020-11-01T20:33:40Z")
There are two Trump supporters on this board. They probably will not post in this thread. I suppose there may be more than two, since a lot of people don’t post about politics at all. But if they haven’t posted about Trump before, they’re unlikely to start now. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/57 "2020-11-02T02:40:49Z")
They are not lyal to the President, they are loyal to the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/58 "2020-11-02T03:42:50Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The best explanation I can offer is a resigned “A pox on both your houses!” or something akin to applauding Hercules as he pulls down the columns of the corrupt temple around this / their ears. You mean Samson. (Judges 16:28-30) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/59 "2020-11-02T06:16:36Z")
Well, of course, see Deep State is lizard people- tall, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian humanoids from the Alpha Draconis star system. They control everything, and trump is on to them. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259/60 "2020-11-02T12:40:39Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > You mean Samson. (Judges 16:28-30) That’s what I get for being a heathen. Can’t keep my various legendary superheroes straight. Thanks for the correction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-deep-state-a-question-for-trump-supporters/924259.md?page=4)