# Trump Vs. The Boy Scouts: Much Ado About Nothing, or An Embarrassing Mess? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080 "2017-07-25T15:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/201 "2017-07-29T23:38:32Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > So, by your definition, something is political if it challenges the status quo, but not if it maintains the status quo? That’s what most, if not all, republicans have campaigned on for the better part of two decades. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/202 "2017-07-30T16:50:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > \*\*This \*\*is the apology the National BSA should have made. As it’s a public statement I’ll quote the whole thing: > > You, Mr. Ryan, are a class act and a credit to the Scouts. Link? My Googlefu is failing me. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/203 "2017-07-31T07:51:46Z")
> [@Marc Ryan](#): > > … > > To use Scouting for that purpose is poor judgement and inappropriate behavior and runs counter to many, if not all, of the points in the Scout Law and \*\*tenants \*\*of the Scout Oath - PERIOD. > > … > > God bless each of you. > Yours in service to youth and communities, > Marc Ryan > Eagle Scout, Father, Scout Executive It’s “tenets”, Og dammit! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/204 "2017-07-31T10:39:47Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Link? My Googlefu is failing me. [It’s on their public Facebook page](https://www.facebook.com/LakeErieBSA/posts/1597850970261230). ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/205 "2017-07-31T14:38:54Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Wait… you think the SCOUTS politicized those things? > > They had a set of values for decades and hardly ever spoke about them publicly. I know that, when I was in the Scouts in the 1970s, nobody ever talked about atheism or homosexuality. Those things didn’t become issues for the Scouts until liberals started attacking their values and demanding that they embrace gays and atheists. So which Boy Scout values are violated by “embracing” gays and atheists? I’m dying to know. OK, I’ll spot you “reverent”, but in your view, are gays unclean or insufficiently thrifty? Are atheists untrustworthy or disobedient? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/206 "2017-07-31T14:42:06Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > So which Boy Scout values are violated by “embracing” gays and atheists? I’m dying to know. OK, I’ll spot you “reverent”, but in your view, are gays **unclean** or insufficiently thrifty? **Are atheists untrustworthy or disobedient?** According to the religious, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/207 "2017-07-31T14:52:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > According to the religious, yes. _Some_ of the religious, if you please. And I’m not aware of whether this specifically was the BSA’s objection. #notallbelievers ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/208 "2017-07-31T15:11:25Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > \*\*This \*\*is the apology the National BSA should have made. As it’s a public statement I’ll quote the whole thing: > > You, Mr. Ryan, are a class act and a credit to the Scouts. Mr Ryan is the sort of person who, even if I disagreed with him politically, I could respect him for being a person of strong moral character. He’s a remarkable counterpoint to the sort of person who would let base political considerations trump whatever “character” they lay claim to. I can think of at least 3 posters in this thread who should have read Mr Ryan’s remarks and been ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/209 "2017-07-31T16:26:50Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > So which Boy Scout values are violated by “embracing” gays and atheists? I’m dying to know. OK, I’ll spot you “reverent”, but in your view, are gays unclean or insufficiently thrifty? Are atheists untrustworthy or disobedient? Gotta give it to the gays for helpful, friendly, courteous, and kind, too. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/210 "2017-08-02T11:53:52Z")
Donald told the WSJ that the head of the boy scouts told him that it was the “greatest speech ever” Here’s a transcript of the talk, at Politico - [http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/01/trump-wall-street-journal-interview-full-transcript-241214](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/01/trump-wall-street-journal-interview-full-transcript-241214) > [@politico link above](#): > > At one point, Trump seemed annoyed that one of The Wall Street Journal reporters in the room called the reaction to his July 24 Boy Scouts speech “mixed.” > > “There was no mix there. That was a standing ovation from the time I walked out to the time I left, and for five minutes after I had already gone. There was no mix,” Trump said. > > He added: “And I got a call from the head of the Boy Scouts saying it was the greatest speech that was ever made to them, and they were very thankful. So there was — there was no mix.” > > The chief of the Boy Scouts subsequently apologized for the political nature of the speech. One notes that the President is always an honorary Boy Scout and he’s not above having good friend John Barron make a few calls on his behalf … The Actual Boy Scouts have denied Donald’s version of events. [http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-02/donald-trump-says-boy-scouts-speech-was-greatest-ever/8767466](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-02/donald-trump-says-boy-scouts-speech-was-greatest-ever/8767466) > [@abcnews link](#): > > When asked by Time Magazine about the message to Mr Trump, the organisation said it was not aware of any call from the national leadership team. > > “The chief Scout executive’s message to the Scouting community speaks for itself,” Scouts told Time. Who on earth takes a softball PR event like a speech to the Boy Scouts and turns it into a week-long Hindenburg recreation? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/211 "2017-08-02T12:37:28Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Donald told the WSJ that the head of the boy scouts told him that it was the “greatest speech ever” > > Here’s a transcript of the talk, at Politico - > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/01/trump-wall-street-journal-interview-full-transcript-241214](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/01/trump-wall-street-journal-interview-full-transcript-241214) > > One notes that the President is always an honorary Boy Scout and he’s not above having good friend John Barron make a few calls on his behalf … > The Actual Boy Scouts have denied Donald’s version of events. > > [http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-02/donald-trump-says-boy-scouts-speech-was-greatest-ever/8767466](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-02/donald-trump-says-boy-scouts-speech-was-greatest-ever/8767466) > > Who on earth takes a softball PR event like a speech to the Boy Scouts and turns it into a week-long Hindenburg recreation? Here’s Maddowblog commenting on this: > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, when the president sat down with the Wall Street Journal last week – Politico published a transcript yesterday – Trump could hardly contain how pleased he was with the reaction to his remarks. > “That was a standing ovation from the time I walked out to the time I left, and for five minutes after I had already gone. […] > > “I got a call from the head of the Boy Scouts saying it was the greatest speech that was ever made to them, and they were very thankful.” > > And that’s where the story gets even stranger. According to a report in Time magazine, officials with the Boy Scouts are “unaware of any call from national leadership placed to the White House” in response to the president’s speech. > > Similarly, a source from the organization told the New York Daily News, “We are not aware of any calls from national [Boy Scouts of America] leadership to the White House.” > > And that leaves some curious possibilities. > > Maybe BSA leaders called the president and the organization is now, for reasons that are unclear, lying about it. > > Maybe someone pretending to be with the Boy Scouts called Trump to tell him how awesome he is, and he was fooled by a prank. > > Or maybe the president just blurted out another ridiculous, self-aggrandizing falsehood in order to feel better about himself. > > Given what we’ve seen from Trump, it’s pretty easy to look at that third option as the likely explanation. > **[Boy Scouts balk in response to Trump's latest bogus boasts](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/boy-scouts-balk-response-trumps-latest-bogus-boasts-msna1008466)** > > Only Donald Trump could screw up a speech to the Boy Scouts -- and then keep the debacle going for days and days. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/212 "2017-08-02T15:30:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > How would a recorded speech have forestalled this? Would the BSA not have shown the speech if Trump had gone off as he did in person? Would they have edited his speech? Doing either would be a diplomatic nightmare. (Although I suspect without a live audience, Trump might be more likely to stick to the script.) Yeah, way late responding to this. Apparently, Trump’s prepared remarks were the standard platitudes that one would expect. As per usual, he gets crazy when he goes off script (and that tends to happen when he is trying to get applause from a crowd). If he had delivered the speech as written, there would have been no controversy. And I think (hope?) that if the recorded speech had included the train-wreck portions, that BSA would have asked him to try again. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/213 "2017-08-03T00:24:13Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Donald told the WSJ that the head of the boy scouts told him that it was the “greatest speech ever” > > Here’s a transcript of the talk, at Politico - > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/01/trump-wall-street-journal-interview-full-transcript-241214](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/01/trump-wall-street-journal-interview-full-transcript-241214) The part that got my goat were is continued references to the size of the crowd. He seems to really think that all those people there came specifically to see him. As opposed to being forced to be there as part of the Jamboree program. I’m sure if he was invited to open the Datona 500, he would assume that all 100,000 people just came to see him, and by chance there happened to be a car race. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/214 "2017-08-03T02:08:48Z")
The WH has apparently clarified Trump’s remarks. It turns out that he didn’t exactly receive a phone call from a BSA executive but he probably talked to somebody, or to more than one person, who might have mentioned that they liked his speech so he is therefore not lying. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/215 "2017-08-03T03:40:33Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > The WH has apparently clarified Trump’s remarks. It turns out that he didn’t exactly receive a phone call from a BSA executive but he probably talked to somebody, or to more than one person, who might have mentioned that they liked his speech so he is therefore not lying. And I guess he talked to someone who owns an iPhone, so he 's not lying when he says Tim Cook of Apple promised him that Apple was going to build 3 plants in the US. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/216 "2017-08-03T13:42:58Z")
My son was at Jamboree, and I suggested that he attend the speech, even though he did not want to. Per his report and that of his scoutmaster, about 70% of the scouts attended, and about 30% opted not to (not official numbers, certainly). It was pitched to them that even if they did not agree with or like the President personally, it would be a rare opportunity to be present for a Presidential address, and that they could respect the institution without respecting the man. In addition, there were other events programmed for after the President’s speech that were of interest. So Trumps address was not the only or even a prime reason to attend. My son was disgusted by the crowd reaction, but I reminded him that it’s frighteningly easy to get a bunch of boys to start whoopin’ and hollerin’ at your own bad behavior. I attended Boy’s State back when I was in high school and I recall a group assembly with a thousand or so boys that ground to a halt for several minutes when an actual GIRL! (the sister of one of the boys present from my high school) entered the back of the auditorium. This was such an unexpected and delightful event that everybody totally lost their shit and the powers that be had to ask her to leave before things could be calmed down. And that was the behavior of a pre-screened group of teenage boys who were supposed to represent future political types. Scary. Anyway, many Scouts were not cheering, but the ones that were whipped into a frenzy more than made up for it. After Trump’s speech, they showed Obama’s previous video message (from 2013?) on a Jumbotron, and a Scout threw a rock at the screen, breaking a segment. That got him frog marched out instantly, and my son said that kid’s whole troop left as well. All in all, my son found the whole thing profoundly disturbing, for the mob mentality displayed as well as for the content of the President’s speech. Mind you, he’s in a troop from a college town with a lot of commie pinko SJW cuck beta parents in a blue enclave in a very red state, so he should get used to the feeling. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/217 "2017-08-03T13:48:34Z")
Yeah, former scout and leader here. Sorry for the _Hitler Youth meets Lord of the Flies_ aspect of scouting… we’d whoop and holler for anything. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/218 "2017-08-03T14:13:09Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Yeah, former scout and leader here. Sorry for the _Hitler Youth meets Lord of the Flies_ aspect of scouting… we’d whoop and holler for anything. At least they got to wear their Class B’s to the assembly, so they weren’t literally in their brown shirts. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/219 "2017-08-03T14:20:52Z")
> [@brossa](#): > > After Trump’s speech, they showed Obama’s previous video message (from 2013?) on a Jumbotron, and a Scout threw a rock at the screen, breaking a segment. That got him frog marched out instantly, and my son said that kid’s whole troop left as well. Wow. I’m guessing that kid is no longer a Boy Scout. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/220 "2017-08-03T14:25:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Wow. I’m guessing that kid is no longer a Boy Scout. You could say he was never a Scout. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080.md?page=12)