# Trump Vs. The Boy Scouts: Much Ado About Nothing, or An Embarrassing Mess? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080 "2017-07-25T15:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/61 "2017-07-25T19:34:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yeah, and this was one of them. It was inappropriate. But our current president’s strong suit is definitely not “finding the appropriate thing to say”. He says all sorts of inappropriate things. Most of them aren’t terribly significant or important. This strikes me as another one of those. Two thoughts: 1. Has he ever shown _any_ inclination that he could find the appropriate thing to say in cases that _do_ matter? 2. [This is 37% indeed](https://medium.com/@davepell/this-is-37-3153b4138628?source=placement_card_footer_grid---------1-43). Gotta love those high standards we hold the leader of the free world to. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/62 "2017-07-25T19:39:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know, but this wasn’t it. Since you don’t currently _know_ of any such, it would be fair to say it has not yet occurred. Hence, it follows that all of his statements _to date_ pass muster and get the **Hurr** Seal of Approval. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/63 "2017-07-25T20:01:04Z")
Remember the[scandal with the last president](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=530465&highlight=indoctrination+obama) involving a speech to school aged children? Lawdy, lawdy, how innappropriate it all was. If only he’d have given a speech about what an asshole Bush was and about all the hotties there are on New York yachts, it would have all blown over with a _meh_. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/64 "2017-07-25T20:03:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Trump knows how to give one type of speech. > > Absolutely inappropriate for the Jamboree. > > Not the BSA’s fault that the sitting President is an asshole, though. But it is the fault of those in attendance for behaving like a rabidly partisan Republican crowd. If that’s how BSA teaches boys to act, then it’s time to shut them down. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/65 "2017-07-25T20:22:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > …and BSA certainly had a right to expect him to be given one with some brief, innocuous remarks about the Boy Scout Oath etc. Anyone SHOULD have a right to expect the President to act like a damn adult, but in this case they were hopelessly clueless if they actually thought he would. But as others have noted, the President is the honorary president of the Boy Scouts, and not inviting him to speak would be a politically-motivated snub. Demanding to pre-approve his remarks wouldn’t have worked, either. I just don’t know what the BSA could have done differently. > [@skdo23](#): > > No such thing as a _former_ Eagle Scout, and I was there in 1989 as well.🆒 What about all those Eagle Scouts who have rejected their status and sent in their medals? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/66 "2017-07-25T20:23:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yeah, and this was one of them. It was inappropriate. But our current president’s strong suit is definitely not “finding the appropriate thing to say”. He says all sorts of inappropriate things. Most of them aren’t terribly significant or important. This strikes me as another one of those. In other words, once you have grabbed a huge number of women by the crotch, grabbing one more doesn’t move the needle. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/67 "2017-07-25T20:23:52Z")
That is one boring speech. I gave up at the point he started mentioning Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/68 "2017-07-25T20:28:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > That is one boring speech. I gave up at the point he started mentioning Christmas. Did you find it inappropriate at all? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/69 "2017-07-25T20:34:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > But it is the fault of those in attendance for behaving like a rabidly partisan Republican crowd. If that’s how BSA teaches boys to act, then it’s time to shut them down. I’ve little doubt that there were firmly advised to behave themselves, but Trump sort of gave them permission to “disobey” by dressing it up in the flag. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/70 "2017-07-25T21:03:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > They were in a tough bind regardless. They always invite the sitting President. Perhaps they might have made post-review gentle suggestions about avoiding partisan topics. > > But gentle, subtle suggestions affect Trump like a sudden attack from a soap bubble. Agree entirely. Also, its not clear that all of the things he put in his speech were actually written down beforehand. To me it looks like he was given a reasonable speech by his speech writers but then decided to improv. with predictable results. ---
**Author:** ![Evin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@Evin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evin)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/71 "2017-07-25T21:22:38Z")
I was at the Boy Scout Jamboree at Valley Forge in late July, 1964. My troop was from the Mississippi Delta. I remember Lyndon Johnson flying in on a big chopper with the Presidential Seal, etc. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 had been signed into law earlier that month. He made no specific mention of this Act, but gave a generous, short, prepared speech. I was very proud of him and my country. Now, I am ashamed. These were Lyndon’s remarks. [http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=26391](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=26391) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/72 "2017-07-25T21:33:10Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Agree entirely. Also, its not clear that all of the things he put in his speech were actually written down beforehand. To me it looks like he was given a reasonable speech by his speech writers but then decided to improv. with predictable results. Very likely. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/73 "2017-07-25T21:44:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Agreed. They didn’t have much choice beforehand…but I wonder how they would have reacted if they had had access to the speech beforehand. I only read the transcript on [Trump 2017 Boy Scout Jamboree Speech: Full Transcript | TIME](http://time.com/4872118/trump-boy-scout-jamboree-speech-transcript/) and I have not watched the video… if I think if BSA had the written speech in advance, they still would not have known what was coming. It reads to me like the president had a speech to read, but he kept veering off into the woods whenever he had a new thought. When he was thanking people, he was fine. Noting the members of his cabinet that are former scouts, also fine…until their names/offices remind him of things like releasing Obamacare. Then he sorta gets back on track until the word “momentum” reminds him of someone and it goes completely off the rails. Trump’s speaking abilities make me long for the days of the Bushes. They were confusing, weird, and often nearly verbless, but I never had to worry about who was listening. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/74 "2017-07-25T21:48:08Z")
He craves that energy, that crowd surge of approval. A calm, sensible, Presidential speech doesn’t have those kind of lines in it. And the improv style is his style, it was on full display at his pep rallies. He would wing it, try out different lines and gauge the reaction. He is a creature of his audience, they tell him what they want to hear, and he says it. He doesn’t lead his audience, he panders to it, they lead, he follows. He’s like an improv comic on Open Mike night, but the big difference being a self-selected audience that is anxiously awaiting their cue to roar their approval. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/75 "2017-07-25T21:52:02Z")
Well, shit. They’re going to love President Franken. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/76 "2017-07-25T21:55:39Z")
Be still, my beating…aaaaarrrgh! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/77 "2017-07-25T22:05:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Since you don’t currently _know_ of any such, it would be fair to say it has not yet occurred. Hence, it follows that all of his statements _to date_ pass muster and get the **Hurr** Seal of Approval. No. First of all, I’m almost certainly not aware of all of Trump’s statements to date. Secondly, I certainly haven’t given my “seal of approval” to all of his statements of which I am aware. Some of this speech to the BSA, for example, I’ve called “inappropriate”. Does that sound like a “seal of approval” to you? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/78 "2017-07-25T22:07:25Z")
> [@Evin](#): > > I was at the Boy Scout Jamboree at Valley Forge in late July, 1964. My troop was from the Mississippi Delta. I remember Lyndon Johnson flying in on a big chopper with the Presidential Seal, etc. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 had been signed into law earlier that month. He made no specific mention of this Act, but gave a generous, short, prepared speech. I was very proud of him and my country. > > Now, I am ashamed. > > These were Lyndon’s remarks. > > [http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=26391](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=26391) Now? This speech to the Scouts is what pushed you over the edge? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/79 "2017-07-25T22:13:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Trump lied about the size of his genitals on national TV. Um, how was it exactly determined that he was lying? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/80 "2017-07-25T22:13:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > In other words, once you have grabbed a huge number of women by the crotch, grabbing one more doesn’t move the needle. No. Nothing in this speech would be as significant as grabbing a woman’s crotch. He took a few jabs at Obama, HRC, and the media when he shouldn’t have. Whoop-dee-do. It’s a “[two scoops](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politics/trump-time-magazine-ice-cream/index.html)” story, not something that foretells the doom of the nation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080.md?page=5)