# Trump Vs. The Boy Scouts: Much Ado About Nothing, or An Embarrassing Mess? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080 "2017-07-25T15:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/81 "2017-07-25T22:17:58Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > 1. Has he ever shown _any_ inclination that he could find the appropriate thing to say in cases that _do_ matter? Yeah, I can think of a few examples where I thought his comments were “appropriate”. Can you? > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > 1. [This is 37% indeed](https://medium.com/@davepell/this-is-37-3153b4138628?source=placement_card_footer_grid---------1-43). Gotta love those high standards we hold the leader of the free world to. Leaders are human. They make mistakes and do dumb things. I imagine you would hesitate to give your seal of approval to every utterance of the past few Dem presidents too, right? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/82 "2017-07-25T22:19:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > But it is the fault of those in attendance for behaving like a rabidly partisan Republican crowd. If that’s how BSA teaches boys to act, then it’s time to shut them down. What makes you think it’s up to you to “shut them down”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/83 "2017-07-25T22:26:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > …Some of this speech to the BSA, for example, I’ve called “inappropriate”. Does that sound like a “seal of approval” to you? Sounds like? Well, sounds like you want to cop some centrist cred by pretending criticism in the mildest possible terms. “Fainting with damn praise”. I mean, “inappropriate”? Are you sure you want to be that harsh? Weren’t you at least tempted to go all out with maybe a “not very nice”? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/84 "2017-07-25T22:30:49Z")
Are we seriously trying to get **HurricaneDitka** to stand up in his chair, put his hand on his heart, and declare “Donald Trump is the worst person ever and I was incredibly stupid for supporting him for one single second ever! And please, sir, can I have some more crow?” I mean, this sounds like a super-productive use of our time, but I thought I’d check first to make sure I was on the same page as everyone before I dived in. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/85 "2017-07-25T22:41:42Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > This would be a big deal if it were any other President. But with Donald Trump it’s just his usual behavior–so it just doesn’t stick out. For example the previous article I read before reading about this subject was one about speculation that Trump was going to dump Sessions so he could get another Attorney General who would be willing to fire Mueller. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Agree. This is Trump being Trump. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yep. Once upon a time not too long ago, a President making a speech that disjointed, oblivious, self-serving and inappropriate would’ve been a humiliating scandal. Now, it’s “hey look, Trump’s being a colossal dick— must be Monday.” This is one of the things I find the most disturbing. We’re less shocked and bothered than we were in the beginning. And I’m really disturbed at how the media is still reporting his actions/speeches/etc. as though he were a normal [del]human being[/del] President. At least some of the opinion writers/columnists (mostly left, but a few right) have started calling him a liar, a disaster, a total screw-up, so that’s something. To go back to an analogy I coined a few months ago, the first time Uncle Harold shows up at Sunday dinner with his underpants on his head, everyone is shocked, dismayed, disgusted, and freaked out. But now, we’re used to it and people are saying, “Yeah, that’s just Uncle Harold. I like the Fruit of the Looms he picked today. That little Donald Duck print goes nicely with his yellow tie. Pass the potatoes, please.” God help us… where will we be with this in a year… in two years. I can’t bear to think of it. > [@begbert2](#): > > Are we seriously trying to get **HurricaneDitka** to stand up in his chair, put his hand on his heart, and declare “Donald Trump is the worst person ever and I was incredibly stupid for supporting him for one single second ever! And please, sir, can I have some more crow?” > > I mean, this sounds like a super-productive use of our time, but I thought I’d check first to make sure I was on the same page as everyone before I dived in. Just ignore him. That’s the most productive strategy. Unless you love beating your head against a brick wall while simultaneously wasting time. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/86 "2017-07-25T23:05:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No. Nothing in this speech would be as significant as grabbing a woman’s crotch. He took a few jabs at Obama, HRC, and the media when he shouldn’t have. Whoop-dee-do. It’s a “[two scoops](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politics/trump-time-magazine-ice-cream/index.html)” story, not something that foretells the doom of the nation. You’re missing the point. The rules are different for Trump. If he does bad things, it is always a “two scoops” story for certain people. If he grabs a crotch, so what? Two scoops. Cites law enforcement officials over a personal grudge? Two scoops. Violates ethics standards? Two scoops. Murders a man on Fifth Ave? Two scoops. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/87 "2017-07-25T23:23:55Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Um, how was it exactly determined that he was lying? :eek: If he was as big as he insinuated, he would have dropped trou right then and there. :eek: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/88 "2017-07-25T23:31:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > But it is the fault of those in attendance for behaving like a rabidly partisan Republican crowd. If that’s how BSA teaches boys to act, then it’s time to shut them down. I wouldn’t go so far as to shut them down, but I’d be interested in the opinions of those with sons in the Boy Scouts. How do you feel about it? Does the BSA’s stance on religion and their former stance on homosexuality bother you? My husband’s stepbrother became an “Eagle Scout.” I put that in quotes because his mother wanted him to be an Eagle Scout so she did the vast majority of the work for his community project. I think all he did was show up on the designated day and help out. This did tarnish my view of what becoming an Eagle Scout means. OTOH my nephew became an Eagle Scout. He came up with the project (building houses for bats on a public path as a natural way of reducing the mosquito population) and did all the leadership on it. I went to his ceremony and I was very proud of him. But even so I was bothered by the anti-atheist/agnostic stance of the BSA. At the time, gay boys were not allowed to be members and gay adults couldn’t be leaders, and that bothered me, too. Many, many years ago i was a Girl Scout. The Girl Scouts have to the best of my knowledge never cared about the sexual orientation of members or leaders. We did pledge “to serve god” but when this was objected to in the 1990s their basic reaction was, “Oops! We include all religions, so feel free to sub other language if you want.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/89 "2017-07-25T23:36:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No. Nothing in this speech would be as significant as grabbing a woman’s crotch. He took a few jabs at Obama, HRC, and the media when he shouldn’t have. Whoop-dee-do. It’s a “[two scoops](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politics/trump-time-magazine-ice-cream/index.html)” story, not something that foretells the doom of the nation. Yes. But. Here’s the thing: I go to the doctor and explain that I have a pain in my kidneys. The doctor grabs a otoscope and starts looking in my ear. At first I might think he’s beginning a thorough exam, but then I realize he believes he can see my kidney in there. Now, you might say, “Hey, whoop-de-do. He didn’t operate and remove the wrong organ. He didn’t give you poison. He just made a mistake about the kidney.” And that’s all true. . . but it’s the kind of basic, fundamental mistake no medical doctor should ever make. So while the effects of this mistake are indeed small, the realization that I have a doctor who believes the kidneys are in the skull is a considerably more serious matter. So, too, in this instance. I grant you the specific effects of this are minuscule. But the episode exposes the fundamental, basic lack of awareness of political norms that plagues Trump and dooms his presidency. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/90 "2017-07-25T23:45:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m an Eagle Scout and a former Scoutmaster. I haven’t seen Trump’s speech, but for me personally, it doesn’t seem like a big deal. I don’t expect I’ll take the time to dig up a video of his speech and listen to it. This single event is not a big deal in isolation, but it is when viewed in the larger context: this guy is supposed to be America’s leader, yet he has never – not once – made a speech that was actually about America, or any of its institutions. It’s always a narcissistic self-promoting self-aggrandizing ramble and/or a mean-spirited condemnation of the alleged awfulness of his growing legion of enemies, which now seems to include half of his own dysfunctional administration. He is incapable of leadership, or of carrying out any of the duties required of a president. And that’s a pretty big deal, and it should be a cause for introspection for all who voted for him. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/91 "2017-07-25T23:54:39Z")
I do blame the BSA a bit. Maybe they thought Trump wouldn’t say anything bad. Maybe they felt they had to maintain the tradition or face a bunch of mad Scout parents. But they still should have chosen to not invite a known evil President to speak. They should have taken their own code of conduct seriously, and, since the President publicly and proudly doesn’t adhere to those, then he should not have been invited. I can still feel sorry for them, that Trump was Trump. I can mostly blame Trump But I can’t say they don’t share any of the blame. They could have prevented this, if they cared enough. If they cared to send the message that even the honorary President must be good and help others. If some kids act out after this, I would not fault them for it. The president of the organization did it, why can’t they? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/92 "2017-07-25T23:59:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > […] > So, too, in this instance. I grant you the specific effects of this are minuscule. But the episode exposes the fundamental, basic lack of awareness of political norms that plagues Trump and dooms his presidency. Trump supporters don’t believe he’s unaware of political norms. He’s shaking up the system, playing 3D chess and trolling the Dems so they are distracted by silly things like a jackass like speech to the boy scouts. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/93 "2017-07-26T00:08:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What makes you think it’s up to you to “shut them down”? Didn’t say it was up to me. It was up to us, collectively, if we want the Boy Scouts to morph into a modern Hitler Youth or not. The scouts behaved terribly, their leaders failed to instruct them in civilized behavior, and they egged on the most evil man in human history. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/94 "2017-07-26T00:13:27Z")
“Hello, pest control? I seem to have a cockroach problem” “How bad is it?” “It’s like a modern Hitler Youth. Similar to that racoon problem I called you about last month” ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/95 "2017-07-26T00:18:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > But it is the fault of those in attendance for behaving like a rabidly partisan Republican crowd. If that’s how BSA teaches boys to act, then it’s time to shut them down. > [@elucidator](#): > > I’ve little doubt that there were firmly advised to behave themselves, but Trump sort of gave them permission to “disobey” by dressing it up in the flag. _ **Of course** _ a bunch of teenage boys are going to wildly cheer a manifestly inappropriate speech. Teenagers enjoy the flouting of convention by a figure who is supposed to be respectable. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/96 "2017-07-26T00:24:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No. Nothing in this speech would be as significant as grabbing a woman’s crotch. He took a few jabs at Obama, HRC, and the media when he shouldn’t have. Whoop-dee-do. It’s a “[two scoops](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politics/trump-time-magazine-ice-cream/index.html)” story, not something that foretells the doom of the nation. Sooo…If he did something that, to you, foretold “doom to the nation” you might decide to actively get involved? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/97 "2017-07-26T00:32:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sooo…If he did something that, to you, foretold “doom to the nation” you might decide to actively get involved? No, he wouldn’t and stop asking him pointless questions like this. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/98 "2017-07-26T00:38:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Now? This speech to the Scouts is what pushed you over the edge? Ha, ha! That sure would be funny! Those foolish liberals. Snort! I join you in thinking that if I read someone’s post in a manifestly ridiculous way, refusing to reread it to figure out what they might actually be saying, I should totally post my misreading of them as a challenge. I’ll look clever then, and probably score points! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/99 "2017-07-26T00:51:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > … the most evil man in human history. You appear to go off the rails right here. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/100 "2017-07-26T00:52:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sooo…If he did something that, to you, foretold “doom to the nation” you might decide to actively get involved? I’m already “actively involved”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080.md?page=6)