# Trump Vs. The Boy Scouts: Much Ado About Nothing, or An Embarrassing Mess? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080 "2017-07-25T15:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/141 "2017-07-26T14:42:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, I read it, and I’m going to assert that the reporter writing the story hasn’t been at every White House dinner and therefore wouldn’t know if, aside from Trump, anyone has ever asked for or received two scoops of ice cream. [Here’s the original article](http://time.com/donald-trump-after-hours/), as near as I can tell. > [@](#): > > The waiters know well Trump’s personal preferences. As he settles down, they bring him a Diet Coke, while the rest of us are served water, with the Vice President sitting at one end of the table. With the salad course, Trump is served what appears to be Thousand Island dressing instead of the creamy vinaigrette for his guests. When the chicken arrives, he is the only one given an extra dish of sauce. At the dessert course, he gets two scoops of vanilla ice cream with his chocolate cream pie, instead of the single scoop for everyone else. The tastes of Pence are also tended to. Instead of the pie, he gets a fruit plate. It’s not huge, but it’s weird. I mean, have you ever hosted people for dinner? Would you handle it this way? If you’d requested specific stuff from the kitchen, wouldn’t you make sure other diners were being tended to properly? Inviting folks to dinner, and then serving them food that in a variety of small ways is inferior to what you’re getting, is shitty hosting. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/142 "2017-07-26T14:46:19Z")
It’s good to be the king. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/143 "2017-07-26T15:08:48Z")
I don’t see a debate here. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/144 "2017-07-26T15:09:36Z")
He gets to make Christie have the meatloaf, too. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/145 "2017-07-26T15:10:51Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I don’t see a debate here. What? The title sets out the debate. Hurricane has taken one side; others have taken the other. Folks are citing evidence to support their position. Folks clearly are participating in the discussion in Great Debates. This is not a good move; please return it to GD. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/146 "2017-07-26T15:11:22Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Portions of the speech were horrifyingly reminiscent of Adolph Hitler speaking to Hitler Jugend in Triump of the Will. No shit. I saw it the same damn way. Heil Trump? WTF ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/147 "2017-07-26T15:12:31Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Agree. This is Trump being Trump. People use that as an excuse and I am so. fucking. sick. of it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/148 "2017-07-26T15:20:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Here’s the original article](http://time.com/donald-trump-after-hours/), as near as I can tell. > > It’s not huge, but it’s weird. I mean, have you ever hosted people for dinner? Would you handle it this way? If you’d requested specific stuff from the kitchen, wouldn’t you make sure other diners were being tended to properly? > > Inviting folks to dinner, and then serving them food that in a variety of small ways is inferior to what you’re getting, is shitty hosting. I’ve been on a cruise. Every night, my wife requested hot chocolate with dinner. By the third or fourth night, the waiter had this figured out and had her hot chocolate ready and waiting for her, without her asking. I see this as something along the lines of that: a wait staff that’s being attentive and doing their job well. I don’t know who regularly attends dinners at the White House besides the President and Vice President, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the wait staff picked up on their likes and dislikes as well and acted accordingly too. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/149 "2017-07-26T15:21:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There will be a national crisis, terror attack, false flag, Reichstag fire, or something. The panic drums will be pounding and the Constitution “temporarily” suspended. I realize it may sound cuckoo, but it is impossible to overestimate the utter evil of this creature. If there is not an event like this, would this cause you to be more circumspect about your predictions in the future? ETA: ahhh, shit, the BBQ Pit. I’m out. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/150 "2017-07-26T15:23:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > But. > > Here’s the thing: I go to the doctor and explain that I have a pain in my kidneys. The doctor grabs a otoscope and starts looking in my ear. At first I might think he’s beginning a thorough exam, but then I realize he believes he can see my kidney in there. > > Now, you might say, “Hey, whoop-de-do. He didn’t operate and remove the wrong organ. He didn’t give you poison. He just made a mistake about the kidney.” > > And that’s all true. . . but it’s the kind of basic, fundamental mistake no medical doctor should ever make. So while the effects of this mistake are indeed small, the realization that I have a doctor who believes the kidneys are in the skull is a considerably more serious matter. > > So, too, in this instance. I grant you the specific effects of this are minuscule. But the episode exposes the fundamental, basic lack of awareness of political norms that plagues Trump and dooms his presidency. I want to add, it will not improve or change. Ever. Also whatever damage he does, is cumulative. it’s a long, slow, festering rot. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/151 "2017-07-26T15:24:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve been on a cruise. Every night, my wife requested hot chocolate with dinner. By the third or fourth night, the waiter had this figured out and had her hot chocolate ready and waiting for her, without her asking. I see this as something along the lines of that: a wait staff that’s being attentive and doing their job well. I don’t know who regularly attends dinners at the White House besides the President and Vice President, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the wait staff picked up on their likes and dislikes as well and acted accordingly too. You’re not the host in this situation. If a host wants something different than what is being served to the guests (unless it’s a dietary restriction), then it should be offered to the guests or the host do without. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/152 "2017-07-26T15:30:07Z")
FWIW, even though I find many of your opinions wrongheaded I still value them. Few things suck more than an echo chamber. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And I largely agree that President Trump lacks a certain sense of decorum and propriety that I wish he didn’t. If, someday, the chips are down and the moment comes where lives are on the line and the outcome hinges on the oratorical skills of our President, I don’t like our odds either. Or even just his ability to _not be an asshole_ for 15 minutes. It’s not like we haven’t already had cases like this. All he had to do to not totally alienate all of our european allies was _not_ overtly and loudly renege on a completely non-binding deal. All he had to do to not hamstring our ability to fight terrorism was _not_ give israeli secrets to Russia. And so on, and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/153 "2017-07-26T16:34:16Z")
\*\*Fun facts: \*\* 1. The current National President of the BSA is Randall Stephenson. 2. Randall Stephenson is also current Chairman, CEO and President of AT&T Inc. 3. AT&T is in the middle of an antitrust review by the Department of Justice with regard to its [$85.4 billion merger with Time Warner](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-24/at-t-said-to-be-in-early-u-s-talks-for-time-warner-approval). I’m guessing the odds of the BSA issuing any statement which might be seen to be criticizing Donald Trump in any way right now are very small indeed. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/154 "2017-07-26T16:38:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Agreed. They didn’t have much choice beforehand…but I wonder how they would have reacted if they had had access to the speech beforehand. But do you really think that having access to the speech beforehand would have helped them? Do you think that all of Trump’s deranged rantings were actually part of the original text? This speech was classic Trump: he reads for a while directly from the prepared remarks, and then veers off on his own personal agenda, only wandering back to the text when he’s run out of stupid anecdotes or conspiracy theories or political jabs. You can actually see it in this speech, if you read the whole thing. There are clearly sections that have been written for him by his people, and that contain the usual harmless platitudes that one expects on an occasion like this. These sections are clear and coherent, and hang together in proper sentences. I was surprised at how long the speech was, and I reckon that’s because a lot of it was Trump’s improvising. I think the one of the hardest jobs in the Trump administration must be held by the person who advances his teleprompter. When he takes one of his many digressions, how do you know when he’s coming back? And which part of the speech will he want to come back to? ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/155 "2017-07-26T17:23:27Z")
The BSA should invite the President. It’s a long standing tradition and not doing so would itself be political. It even sounds like they tried to get across to Trump that he shouldn’t be political. (At least I assume that’s why he put in the caveats about not getting political into his remarks, right before getting into politics. Does anybody think Trump has the awareness to not get political in front of a crowd on his own?) I hold the BSA relatively blameless. On the scale of shit wrong with Trump, this is low on the list. It’s completely emblematic of everything wrong with him, but as an individual event, it’s way below “grab 'em by the pussy,” years of insinuating Obama of not being wasn’t eligible to be President, his efforts to roll back environmental protections, etc… It’s symptomatic of his self-centered nature. It’s symptomatic of his inability to separate himself as an individual from his role as President. It’s symbolic of how petty he is. And yet it pisses me off at a very personal level. I still will not forgive the BSA District level people who used the Eagle Scout Court of Honor for me and three of my peers\* to rail against groups wanting the Boy Scouts to allow gay members. This was at the time the issue was becoming a political hot button (1999, between the California and Supreme Court decisions allowing the BSA to discriminate). He took the platform meant to be used to honor those receiving the highest honor in Scouting and used it for politics. I came from a politically diverse troop. We didn’t have a feeder organization, so we had people of relatively diverse religious and political backgrounds\*\*. Everybody at the troop level and every parent was upset by the District speaker’s misappropriation of his platform. So much so that several wrote to the District to let them know how inappropriate it was. So Trump’s misappropriation of his platform given by BSA hits close to home. \*We earned Eagle Scout at around the same time and were honored in the same ceremony. \*\*I didn’t grow up in a very diverse area, so my troop’s diversity is relative to other troops in the area. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/156 "2017-07-26T17:40:27Z")
You all are missing the point of the two scoops of ice cream: They were served with chocolate cream pie. Who the hell serves ice cream with cream pie? There are more than 600 calories in one slice of Marie Callender’s chocolate cream pie. I suspect the pie served at the WH is comparable. One scoop of premium vanilla ice cream has about 200 calories. So our fat president is scarfing down 1000 calories for his dessert. Who sets the menu for these WH dinners? Are they trying to give the guy a heart attack? (OK, I would, and I suspect Melania would, too.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/157 "2017-07-26T17:53:38Z")
If Trump wants to be his usual vulgar piggish self in front of grownups, that’s one thing. But these were _kids_, age 11 and up. And he’s out there talking to them about parties with hot women. Too bad he didn’t ask them to raise their hands if they liked gladiator movies. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/158 "2017-07-26T19:01:44Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > The BSA should invite the President. It’s a long standing tradition and not doing so would itself be political. It even sounds like they tried to get across to Trump that he shouldn’t be political. (At least I assume that’s why he put in the caveats about not getting political into his remarks, right before getting into politics. Does anybody think Trump has the awareness to not get political in front of a crowd on his own?) I hold the BSA relatively blameless. > > On the scale of shit wrong with Trump, this is low on the list. It’s completely emblematic of everything wrong with him, but as an individual event, it’s way below “grab 'em by the pussy,” years of insinuating Obama of not being wasn’t eligible to be President, his efforts to roll back environmental protections, etc… It’s symptomatic of his self-centered nature. It’s symptomatic of his inability to separate himself as an individual from his role as President. It’s symbolic of how petty he is. Agree 100%. There is no defending Trump’s actions here, and he was a complete ass to do what he did. But even on an absolute scale, this doesn’t rate very high. If we’re grading on a curve, it hardly registers relative to the shit Trump has done or said. It’s more a symptom of what is wrong with him than anything else. The BSA pretty much has to invite him, and Trump gotta be Trump. I think the kids will survive just fine (and I say that as a former Scout myself). ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/159 "2017-07-26T19:16:45Z")
It just irks me that if Obama were speaking at boy scout jamboree and burped in the middle of his address, Fox “News” would run a three part special on how disrespectful and unpatriotic he is, but this … meh, the new normal. I guess the era of having statesmen for presidents is officially over if people who profess to be serious see this shit and just shine it on like it’s perfectly acceptable now - that’s just how things are, whaddayagonnado? And I don’t for a second believe that every swinging dick on the planet isn’t aware of this blazing hypocrisy from the right. It makes me think every Republican still supporting this buffoon is a spineless pussy. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080/160 "2017-07-26T20:39:46Z")
I would have been in favor of striking a medal for, and awarding it to, anyone up on that stage who stood up and turned their back on the America-hating fuckstick the moment he departed from the script. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-vs-the-boy-scouts-much-ado-about-nothing-or-an-embarrassing-mess/792080.md?page=9)