# Trump wants a US space force **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 18, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341 "2018-06-18T21:48:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/81 "2018-06-19T18:13:49Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > If this means that some of the ENORMOUS budget of the military is now going to trickle into space exploration, I can’t see that as anything but a good thing. You’ve got a terrible read on history and this has nothing to do with anything. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/82 "2018-06-19T18:17:17Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > AFSPC is already doing a fine job of this to the point of being a resource for many other allied and neutral nations, and while there has long been discussion about creating a “Space Force”, mostly by people disappointed that the Air Force found a crewed space program to be of little practical value with advances in satellite surveillance technology and cancelled the Manned Orbiting Laboratory and the X-20 “Dyna-Soar”, and only very reluctantly and expensively participated in the Space Transportation System (“Shuttle”) before the _Challenger_ failure made it clear that it required alternative access to space. I think unmanned projects are obviously important, but manned (or “womanned”) spaceflight seems to engage the public more with the idea of space exploration and I see that as being equally important. Putting a human face on astronauts and demonstrating the intersection of the apex of human intelligence and bravery with the apex of mechanical engineering and technology, popularizes the idea of space exploration, inspires young people to study science, and generally boosts the morale of the country. > [@](#): > > The non-sequitur use of the phrase “separate but equal” shows how little thought or context has gone into this idea or the public presentation of it. For those not aware, “seperate but equal” is strongly identified with the summation of the Plessy v. Ferguson Supreme Court case which justified racial segregation in state-sponsored education and other services. It is tempting to look at this as being some kind of an intentional “dog whistle” comment but in fact it likely just illustrates the horrifying lack of historical and cultural knowledge from all aspects of the Trump administration. On that we are in agreement, and I was astonished to hear Trump deploy this ridiculous phrase in his speech. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/83 "2018-06-19T18:18:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The only positive I can really think of is that Space Fence seems to be going pretty smoothly. So on the scope of “whats wrong with national security space,” it seems like a pretty fair criticism that “but-but-but the Air Force that we work for doesn’t let us pile more disasters on top of our sorry record!” is a laughable reason for reform. I’m not saying it’s not laughable. Just Program Managers I know say they have been stymied in the programmatic efforts for things by the priorities being set by the AF. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/84 "2018-06-19T18:24:44Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I think unmanned projects are obviously important, but manned (or “womanned”) spaceflight seems to engage the public more with the idea of space exploration and I see that as being equally important. Putting a human face on astronauts and demonstrating the intersection of the apex of human intelligence and bravery with the apex of mechanical engineering and technology, popularizes the idea of space exploration, inspires young people to study science, and generally boosts the morale of the country. If we actually want to spend more on space exploration then there is a very simple answer to that: spend money on space exploration. We already have a large and established civilian organization that has done so well in that area that their acronym is actually a synecdoche for space exploration, and they are the unquestioned international leader in this area, being the only organization in existence to have put people on another celestial body, sent probes to every major planet in the solar system as well as performing ground-breaking work in Earth climate surveillance, space-based interstellar and intergalactic astronomy, and solar observation. For the cost of a single aircraft carrier the NASA budget for interplanetary exploration could be doubled for half a decade, allowing multiple outer planets missions or putting half a dozen rovers at different locations on Mars. A “Space Force” isn’t going to do any of this; it’s focus will be on direct action conflict with other national powers which have an interest in controlling or denying Earth orbital access. The fantasy of setting up military bases on the Moon or other planets [makes about as much sense as guarding a force in a box canyon on some remote outpost](https://youtu.be/9BAM9fgV-ts). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/85 "2018-06-19T18:25:41Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Hypothetical is “If Obama were a moronic shit like Trump then Democrats would still support him because t **here are no legitimate complaints** about Trump and **the only reason Democrats oppose him** is irrational partisan hatred.” That’s not at all what I said, though. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/86 "2018-06-19T18:26:33Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > It would probably be a bad idea to make a separate service out of it, just as it arguably was with the Air Force. A Joint Command dedicated to a set of tasks requiring specific skills, organization and technology could be good though. Even if you don’t put any weapons in space, it’s going to get interesting with space launches getting cheaper, electronics getting better & cheaper and the software/machine learning to fuse data from multiple sensors. Imagine the planet as a multispectral panopticon. There actually is talk about creating a Unified Combatant Command (like CENTCOM, AFRICOM, SOCOM, CYBERCOM, etc…) for space-related things. > **[Pentagon May Create a Combatant Command for Space](https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2018/03/pentagon-may-create-combatant-command-space/146430/)** > > The Defense Department is also looking at major changes to speed up how it buys satellites. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/87 "2018-06-19T18:27:34Z")
I don’t think it’s a terrible idea to have one agency be responsible for all U.S. space activities. It always seemed like a questionable idea to have NASA, the CIA, Air Force and other agencies all spending money on space with little or no coordination.\* I know NASA wants to remain independent because the military isn’t going to prioritize scientific exploration, but that can be addressed by Congress in its appropriations. Do I think it’s a good idea to create another branch of the military? Fuck no. > [@steronz](#): > > I think a space force, aside from requiring an act of congress that is never going to happen, is just asking to add a layer of bureaucracy in an era where the DoD is trying to combine agencies as often as possible in order to reduce bureaucracy. Combining agencies rarely results in actual reduction in bureaucracy. In practice, the merged agency keeps all the existing staff and adds a new layer of middle management to “coordinate” the merger. In theory, of course, there are savings on things like stationery and infrastructure, since there are half as many requisitions required. On the other hand, breaking up large agencies like the USAF isn’t going to make things any more efficient, because you lose the economies of scale _and_ have to add more people at the top. \*I assume the CIA and USAF coordinated their efforts on the A-12/SR-71 programs because only one aircraft got past the prototype stage. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/88 "2018-06-19T18:29:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Just Program Managers I know say they have been stymied in the programmatic efforts for things by the priorities being set by the AF. Oh, sure, I’m certain that happens. But that puts them in the company of every single program manager in the Department of Defense. I find no reason to believe that SMC acquisition types are treated any more unfairly than PMs in any other service. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/89 "2018-06-19T18:54:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh, sure, I’m certain that happens. But that puts them in the company of every single program manager in the Department of Defense. I find no reason to believe that SMC acquisition types are treated any more unfairly than PMs in any other service. Sure, but I doubt that PMs in the Army are being held back by AF leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/90 "2018-06-19T18:58:41Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure, but I doubt that PMs in the Army are being held back by AF leaders. They clearly have it worse. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aXQ2lO3ieBA/maxresdefault.jpg "Pentagon Wars - Bradley Fighting Vehicle Evolution") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/91 "2018-06-19T19:09:11Z")
[quote=“Ravenman, post:90, topic:816341”] They clearly have it worse. [/QUOTE] Hmmmm…you may have a point 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/92 "2018-06-19T19:10:17Z")
I thought someone was incredulous about the title of Charles Chilton’s BBC radio series, Sapce Force. I’m disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/93 "2018-06-19T19:14:26Z")
I merged two 40+ post threads. After post #40 which was the other OP, the responses to each thread are intertwined. Both threads used the same CNN article link as a starting point so I picked the one that was started first. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/94 "2018-06-19T22:42:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Space Cadet Bone Spurs](https://i.imgflip.com/26c2yv.jpg) Does zero gravity relieve the discomfort from bone spurs? Perhaps we should beam him up, you know, for his own good. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/95 "2018-06-20T15:36:30Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Separate but equal to Air Force That’s the first thing I noticed too. Even while announcing a military project, as goofy as “Space Force” sounds, he can’t help but add in a little racist phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/96 "2018-06-20T16:15:03Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > The troops would be housed at Trump Hotels and trained by Trump Universities. > > Ivanka would be in charge of the uniforms. > > Well, I just figure making him some money has to factor in somehow. The earth is surrounded by space. Big space. Mars is actually further away than Jhina; people don’t know that. Nobody knew space could be so complicated. Under Obama we were losing in space. You see all these countries’ putting their satellites everywhere: bing bing bong bong. Laughing at us. And the space launches: terrible ratings. This concludes your space corps training. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/97 "2018-06-21T00:34:22Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The earth is surrounded by space. Big space. > Mars is actually further away than Jhina; people don’t know that. Nobody knew space could be so complicated. > > Under Obama we were losing in space. You see all these countries’ putting their satellites everywhere: bing bing bong bong. Laughing at us. > And the space launches: terrible ratings. > > This concludes your space corps training. At my other board it’s all Starship Troopers and Spaceballs jokes but this is really good work. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/98 "2018-06-21T02:09:59Z")
In fact I didn’t realize but Trump already addressed part of his speech to the future space cadets: > [@The actual president](#): > > You will go out there, and you will take that frontier. Which is largely unknown, by man, _or woman_. > And you will learn everything…there is to know about it. And what you’re doing is so important. > Remember: economically, militarily, scientifically, in every way; **there’s no place like space**. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/99 "2018-06-21T04:55:33Z")
“…thee’s no place like space…” Who needs rockets? Our brave cadets will just click their ruby slipper heels and voila! ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341/100 "2018-06-21T17:16:16Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Separate but equal to Air Force > > [https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/politics/trump-space-force-air-force/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/politics/trump-space-force-air-force/index.html) > > will the USSF sit at the back of the bus? Humor aside, there is a need for this. Suppose an asteroid or comet is headed our way, can we stop it? Suppose the Russians or Chinese come up with a weaponized mobile satellitesystem to take our own, or mount a laser-like weapon? Do not laugh, lasers are weapons these days. The navy has some that can set fire to a small ship in seconds with the cost per shot being under a dollar. With some development, you don’t need to spend whatever a cruise missile cost to take out a terrorist stronghold. There is no defense, the weapon moves at the speed of light. Whichever nation gets the edge in space, militarily and political speaking will have a big advantage. Ronald’s Reagan’s stars wars defense isn’t so far off these days. Suppose in the not too distant future, there is money to be made mining minerals, from Asteroids or moons, who protects the transport ships from piracy? And those are just some ideas off the top of my head. So you see there is a need for a militarized space unit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-a-us-space-force/816341.md?page=6)