# Trump Wants to Draw Down Troops in Afghanistan and Iraq: Good or Bad Idea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 17, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840 "2020-11-17T23:13:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/41 "2020-11-19T21:25:17Z")
Not as tired of it as the world is. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/42 "2020-11-19T21:25:26Z")
So you’re for massive military budget slashings? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/43 "2020-11-19T21:26:54Z")
Pull a bunch out. Leave some behind. When the some are attacked because there’s not a bunch there anymore, blame Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/44 "2020-11-19T21:35:46Z")
I don’t mind policing the world, but prefer it done from 35,000 feet instead of boots on the ground. Tell Taliban, “We’ll leave Afghanistan, but only if this, this, this, and that.” And anytime Taliban violates agreement - get paid a visit by a B-2. Once a year, or once a month, as needed. They have no meaningful antiaircraft defenses that can reach that high. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/45 "2020-11-19T21:38:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Tell Taliban, “We’ll leave Afghanistan, but only if this, this, this, and that.” And anytime Taliban violates agreement - get paid a visit by a B-2. Once a year, or once a month, as needed. Trump just told Afghanistan (and Putin, btw…) “You don’t have to do anything. We’ll remove troops.” The art of the deal, and Putin chuckles. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/46 "2020-11-19T21:42:24Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I’m not so upset about how long the US has been in Afghanistan, largely because I recognized, way back when they first went in, _ **that reforming Afghanistan in the way the US envisaged it was a generational process.** _ Afghanistan is called the “[Graveyard of Empires](https://thediplomat.com/2017/06/why-is-afghanistan-the-graveyard-of-empires/)” for a reason. I didn’t have much hope that Americans in general would have the stomach for such a long engagement, but I knew that this was what they were buying, even if they didn’t. > > So far, I’ve been proven right. I’m not so sure how you have been proven right. Not getting your meaning here, sorry. But I would say going back to my earlier comment, that the highlighted part sounds like what I was suggesting, that the military will try very hard to always find a reason to stay. I understand that you are stating a general objective, but this sound like an open-ended excuse to never leave. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/47 "2020-11-19T21:45:24Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Not as tired of it as the world is. I’m sure we all remember how George W. Bush said we were attacked because “they hated us for our freedoms.” I remain convinced that “they” don’t give a fuck about what we do over here, they just wanted us to get our troops out of their part of the world and stop meddling. However, even though troops have or will be withdrawn from Germany, for instance, I think a lot of the world is still very happy with us policing. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/48 "2020-11-19T22:10:12Z")
He said he would do it. Don’t think it’s a whim. The Industrial Military Complex are unhappy but screw them. This President hasn’t got us into any conflicts. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/49 "2020-11-19T22:11:43Z")
Oh, I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/50 "2020-11-19T22:12:58Z")
It was a whim when he said it. He’s proven reliably that he has no idea how things work. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/51 "2020-11-19T22:14:06Z")
> [@eenerms](#): > > Industrial Military Complex It would help, assuming you actually want to be taken seriously, to get those words in their correct order. > **[Military–industrial complex | Etymology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex#Etymology)** > > U.S. President (and five-star general since World War II) Dwight D. Eisenhower used the term in his Farewell Address to the Nation on January 17, 1961: ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/52 "2020-11-19T22:32:27Z")
Regarding the various comments about a “whim”, it does seem like that to a degree now, since he’s only been calling _again_ for this recently, since he lost the election. He did repeatedly call for withdrawals both during his first campaign, and also during his tenure (Tweets, etc). But given that he did nothing up to now, “whim” to me doesn’t seem all that inaccurate as regards Afghanistan and Iraq. Whatever. We should get out now. As regards waiting for Biden, it’s my understanding, and correct me if I’m wrong, that the military has contingency plans for just about everything. There are career Defense Dept people and experience people in the military that I would hope can carry such a withdrawal out on Trump’s command. I certainly don’t think Trump knows shit about it though. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/53 "2020-11-19T22:44:50Z")
While I’m as happy as anyone for us to be getting out of these “endless” wars, I really have to wonder why now. I don’t know that much of anyone, especially on the Republican side, was clamoring for it and I refuse to believe that it’s because Trump actually cares about someone besides himself. Are we sure this doesn’t help Putin in some way? I would have thought he preferred for the U.S. to stay entangled, but who knows. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/54 "2020-11-20T01:04:43Z")
Yeah, misspoke waterboard me. I don’t give a rat ass about who gets us out of these mindless wars. Just get our troops out. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/55 "2020-11-20T03:13:16Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > _ **that reforming Afghanistan in the way the US envisaged it was a generational process** _ > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’m not so sure how you have been proven right. Not getting your meaning here, sorry. But I would say going back to my earlier comment, that the highlighted part sounds like what I was suggesting, that the military will try very hard to always find a reason to stay. I understand that you are stating a general objective, but this sound like an open-ended excuse to never leave. Not an “excuse”, just a recognition of reality. Afghanistan has been a tribal society for a long, long time, and a very religious society on top of that. And not a western religion. The US talked a lot about bringing freedom&democracy™ to them, defeating the Taliban and all that, but you don’t build a working democracy out of a religious tribal society in just a few years, particularly when there’s such a disconnect between the religious and social attitudes of the two societies. You need to build up trust in democracy, starting small, at the local level, and gradually working towards a national level democracy. It took England centuries to make the transition from a feudal kingdom to a functional parliamentary democracy, and the US, Canada, and a lot of other modern western states built on that legacy. Why anyone thought we’d be able to completely short-circuit that process in Afghanistan is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/56 "2020-11-20T14:54:56Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Why anyone thought we’d be able to completely short-circuit that process in Afghanistan is beyond me. Me too, absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, this is the kind of thing that caused 9/11. We are trying to change something we have no business trying to change. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/57 "2020-11-20T15:19:18Z")
A better question: what would ISIS have been able to do had we not repelled the threat? ISIS used the territory it claimed as a laboratory for extreme theocracy. These are people who posed a credible danger to regional and even global security. I understand the fatigue associated with perpetual troop presence and I agree that the idea of “winning” in Afghanistan and Iraq is not going to happen; it’s a matter of whether there can be a transition away from these places that puts people in a position to govern themselves with some stability. As invaders and occupiers, we have a responsibility to these people. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/58 "2020-11-20T15:48:02Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > A better question: what would ISIS have been able to do had we not repelled the threat? Nah, that’s not a better question, at least until you answer mine. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/59 "2020-11-20T16:28:13Z")
Look at what happened in France in 2015. You want ISIS to have a home base where they can essentially have free rein to generate their own economy, fund their own armies, and launch devastating terror attacks? Keep in mind that not attacking the US now might be part of their plan; they function differently than Al Qaeda. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840/60 "2020-11-20T16:46:37Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > There are career Defense Dept people and experience people in the military that I would hope can carry such a withdrawal out on Trump’s command. I certainly don’t think Trump knows shit about it though. Sure they have contigency plans to quickly evacuate our Troops from Afghanistan, they also have plans on how to scuttle the USS Nimitz to prevent it from falling into enemy hands, but they would rather not use those plans if there was a less drastic and more orderly withdrawal available. My concern is that we will see a repeat of the disastrous decision to up and leave Northern Syria without any preparation or thought of the consequences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-wants-to-draw-down-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-good-or-bad-idea/925840.md?page=4)