# Trump will (probably) go to prison if he's found guilty **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [May 16, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651 "2024-05-16T21:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/141 "2024-05-31T12:24:25Z")
And that same connection doesn’t exist in Trump’s case? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/142 "2024-05-31T12:27:59Z")
Sorry, “he” in that sentence was Trump, not Cohen. My post is pretty unclear. Cohen: Campaign finance fraud, tax evasion, other charges, felonies in their own right Stewart: Insider trading or fraud, felonies Trump: Falsifying business records, a misdemeanor, elevated to felony because it was in pursuit of another crime (that wasn’t proven, as far as I know) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/143 "2024-05-31T12:32:51Z")
Technically: > A jury found Martha Stewart guilty Friday on all four [ed: felony] counts of obstructing justice and lying to investigators about a well-timed stock sale > The conviction came exactly a week after U.S. District Judge Miriam Goldman Cedarbaum threw out the most serious charge against Stewart – securities fraud – which carried a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison and a $1 million fine. [**SOURCE**](https://money.cnn.com/2004/03/05/news/companies/martha_verdict/) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/144 "2024-05-31T12:57:26Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > A jury found Martha Stewart guilty Friday on all four [ed: felony] counts of obstructing justice and lying to investigators about a well-timed stock sale Yeah that’s a good example, and is similar to Trump’s. It was a non-violent felony, she was a first time offender, so she [was offered](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/martha-turned-down-plea-bargain/#:~:text=A%20published%20report%20reveals%20that,exchange%20for%20a%20probation%20sentence.) a non custodial plea deal, she turned it down, lost a jury trial and got a prison sentence. Most people take the deal, and most people are offered a deal, so make up the majority of sentences handed out. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/145 "2024-05-31T13:24:11Z")
What’s the likelihood he won’t have to sit for the [pre-sentencing interview](https://www.nycourts.gov/courthelp/criminal/preSentenceReport.shtml)? I have this wonderful image of him being grilled by a woman who looks like Octavia Spencer going for a second Oscar and doesn’t put up with any of his crap. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/146 "2024-05-31T13:48:20Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > The most compelling reason to think Trump will get a prison sentence is that Cohen got 3 years Cohen committed more crimes than just election stuff. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/147 "2024-05-31T13:51:05Z")
As I posted above, I don’t think Trump will go to prison. I just think the best argument for him to go to prison is he committed these felonies in furtherance of felonies that resulted in prison time. It seems unjust to me that the mastermind would not get prison time while the minion does. But that’s just me. I’m not a lawyer, and certainly not a judge, and definitely not the judge in charge of this case. I’m speaking only of what I think is fair. I trust in Merchan to do what is proper within the law. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/148 "2024-05-31T13:52:16Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > What’s the likelihood he won’t have to sit for the [pre-sentencing interview](https://www.nycourts.gov/courthelp/criminal/preSentenceReport.shtml)? I have this wonderful image of him being grilled by a woman who looks like Octavia Spencer going for a second Oscar and doesn’t put up with any of his crap I mean it seems like that is a mandatory part of the process why wouldn’t he? My question is whether the various public statements he’s made can be used as evidence in the report? I have no doubt that (suitably coached) he can appear fairly contrite during the interview and the hearing itself. But he has shown exactly the opposite attitude at all other times (and left plenty of documentary evidence of that) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/149 "2024-05-31T13:54:17Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > so she [was offered](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/martha-turned-down-plea-bargain/#:~:text=A%20published%20report%20reveals%20that,exchange%20for%20a%20probation%20sentence.) a non custodial plea deal, she turned it down, lost a jury trial and got a prison sentence Random thought. Are plea offers part of the public record? Do we know for sure Trump wasn’t offered one? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/150 "2024-05-31T14:26:52Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Martha Stewart was convicted of insider trading. That’s just not true. She was being investigated for that and lied to investigators. She was not convicted of it and if she had cooperated with them it’s doubtful she’d have served time at all. She was convicted of literally just lying and got jail time. First offense, not violent, wealthy and white and famous. Jail. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/151 "2024-05-31T14:28:17Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Are plea offers part of the public record? Do we know for sure Trump wasn’t offered one? We wouldn’t know for sure, but I can’t imagine Trump not mentioning it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/152 "2024-05-31T14:29:17Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > elevated to felony because it was in pursuit of another crime (that wasn’t proven, as far as I know) The jury unanimously said it was proven. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/153 "2024-05-31T14:30:16Z")
Didn’t they say that the falsifying business records (a misdemeanor) was proven? I don’t think the jury opined on the election fraud – it wasn’t charged, I thought. ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/154 "2024-05-31T14:30:58Z")
I suspect there will be sufficient grounds, that can be argued for logically, for incarceration, even a token amount. But a weekend in Riker’s won’t satisfy anyone in the name of justice. I’ve heard from a couple of places that the sentence for these crimes is typically between 1.5 and 4 years per conviction; I’ve seen it argued that rather than sentence him to 136 years, the judge may let it run concurrently. Which, personally I wouldn’t mind not that I have an iota of say in the matter. Honestly, and I know this is petty, I just want him to spend enough days kept away from his skin and hair products, and then marched in front of the cameras on his way to a hearing. I feel like seeing a gray-skinned, balding saggy lump of a person with permanent cat-butt mouth on every channel (though maybe Fox would AI a wig onto him) would be the fingersnap to wake a lot of the cultists out of the hypnosis. I can dream. Such fantasies will keep me going until his appeal lands in front of a GOP judge who dismisses the charges out of hand and gives the felon his vindication rally. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/155 "2024-05-31T14:35:27Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Didn’t they say that the falsifying business records (a misdemeanor) was proven? I don’t think the jury opined on the election fraud – it wasn’t charged, I thought. They could only find him guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree if they concluded he did so in furtherance of another crime. So, it’s inherent in their verdict, but not an explicit finding. (we’re both right?) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/156 "2024-05-31T14:35:59Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > (we’re both right?) Love it! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/157 "2024-05-31T14:45:51Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Didn’t they say that the falsifying business records (a misdemeanor) was proven? I don’t think the jury opined on the election fraud – it wasn’t charged, I thought. I’m going to try and explain this in a way that helps you get your head around it. It may not be entirely analogous between states, but hopefully it will clear your confusion. In California, there are criminal charges that are referred to as “wobblers.” They can be either misdemeanors or felonies, depending on what facts apply to the case. If certain enhancements are found to be true – and there are a variety of enhancements, _any one of which_ may apply and suffice to elevate the charge – the wobbler becomes a felony charge. Without those enhancements, the charge is a misdemeanor. But with them, if the facts support it, the charge becomes a felony. So in this case, as @Procrustus points out, if the jury found that the business record falsification was done in furtherance of a federal crime of, say, election interference, then that is an enhancement that elevates the crime from a misdemeanor to a felony. The jury was free to find that a couple other federal criminal statutes were violated, _any one of which_ could apply to elevate the charge to a felony. Hope this helps! If I’ve confused you further, my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/158 "2024-05-31T14:47:36Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Are plea offers part of the public record? Do we know for sure Trump wasn’t offered one? _Law & Order_ has taught us that plea offers are made in dingy conference rooms or in hallways, away from public scrutiny. Opposing counsel will roll his or her eyes and say, “We’ll see you in court, counselor.” Or a counter-offer is made. The attorneys may or may not reach agreement. But regardless, a 4-minute trial results. This is textbook stuff, people. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/159 "2024-05-31T14:52:27Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Didn’t they say that the falsifying business records (a misdemeanor) was proven? I don’t think the jury opined on the election fraud – it wasn’t charged, I thought Election fraud was not proven. The crime that the jurors could imagine that the falsifications were undertaken for could be tax related, not election related, for all that we know. There’s no requirement that they decide which one. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651/160 "2024-05-31T14:52:30Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Are plea offers part of the public record? Do we know for sure Trump wasn’t offered one? In Colorado, where I first practiced criminal law, plea deals were never made part of the record. Now that I’m in Florida, it’s common for the state to put a plea offer on the record (usually with the express promise that it will be withdrawn if the defendant requests a trial date). So, it depends. Here, if a plea offer was made in open court, I’m _certain_ that we’d all know about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-will-probably-go-to-prison-if-hes-found-guilty/1001651.md?page=9)