# Trump... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002 "2019-09-10T19:55:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/121 "2019-09-13T11:08:52Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Oh noes, the grammar police. > > My back-up are the Democrats themselves. They apparently can do whatever the fuck they want with the electorate with impunity as long as they don’t say it out loud. That’s not grammar. That’s _spelling_. As far as doing what he wants with impunity, look at the shit Trump does(and try not to drool while you’re at it). And the blatant hypocrisy of the GOP as they fight for space around Trump’s rectum. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/122 "2019-09-13T11:43:52Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Is it? I thought first-year “migrants” were overwhelmingly Not Yet Citizens with the Right to Vote. There is only one program I know of where a first-year immigrant gets to vote. That is only after they avail themselves of the Expeditious Naturalization Program. Under the ENP, when the resident alien family member’s sponsor takes a posting overseas with the federal government, the resident alien family member will be naturalized immediately and then must accompany their sponsor at the overseas posting. The vast majority, of course, of those getting naturalized this way are family members of our service members. You know those folks, right? They’re the ones Trump and the GOP are fucking over at the exact same time they pretend to help, honor, and practically worship teh Armed Forces. > [@running\_coach](#): > > That’s not grammar. That’s _spelling_. > As far as doing what he wants with impunity, look at the shit Trump does(and try not to drool while you’re at it). And the blatant hypocrisy of the GOP as they fight for space around Trump’s rectum. I don’t think he’s drooling, although he is a moron. I think he’s probably creaming. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/123 "2019-09-13T12:17:45Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > If it was just a simple matter of healthcare and nothing else, I’d vote for healthcare. > > But it’s not. I see. How about you pick one thing from the [Democratic Party Platform](https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/) and discuss how you think it’s worse than eternal damnation for all mankind? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/124 "2019-09-13T13:21:34Z")
> [@robby](#): > > [ALL POSSIBLE RESPONSES TO “THEY SHOULD GET IN LINE AND DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, THE WAY MY FAMILY DID,” WITH CITATIONS](https://deportnation.com/all-possible-responses-to-they-should-get-in-line-and-do-it-the-right-way-the-way-my-family-did-ab0b7dbcbb26) Heh, it’s like a response one might give to a claim that “under God” was put in the Pledge of Allegiance by Jesus himself. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/125 "2019-09-13T13:45:27Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Any maneuver right now is too late. The left has made the illegal immigrant vote one of the foundations of their long term plan, and it should have never happened. > > But that’s just how sleazy they are. Can’t capture the white vote? Import brown votes to offset them. Can win with the electoral college? Remove it. Need more congressional representation? Include illegal aliens & jam refugees in certain districts. > > All the while blocking voter ID laws and screaming about gerrymandering. > > It’s fucking filth, pure and simple, and people who knowingly support it as a way to sway the electorate are towing a line that’s real close to treason. Pretty sure it’s not. You might be upset at all the nasty things the mean old Democrats in your head are doing, but upsetting you is not a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/126 "2019-09-13T13:48:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I see. How about you pick one thing from the [Democratic Party Platform](https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/) and discuss how you think it’s worse than eternal damnation for all mankind? I already told you if it was only about healthcare, I’d be all for it. But it’s not. Your party leaders are openly campaigning on literally taking citizens rifles, by force if needed. Eternal damnation it is. I’d rather see a crater where DC used to be before voting for a tyrant and a tyrannical party. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/127 "2019-09-13T14:00:20Z")
> [@robby](#): > > [ALL POSSIBLE RESPONSES TO “THEY SHOULD GET IN LINE AND DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, THE WAY MY FAMILY DID,” WITH CITATIONS](https://deportnation.com/all-possible-responses-to-they-should-get-in-line-and-do-it-the-right-way-the-way-my-family-did-ab0b7dbcbb26) That article was so good I literally bought a subscription to the guy’s newsletter. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/128 "2019-09-13T14:08:01Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > I already told you if it was only about healthcare, I’d be all for it. But it’s not. > > Your party leaders are openly campaigning on literally taking citizens rifles, by force if needed. > > Eternal damnation it is. I’d rather see a crater where DC used to be before voting for a tyrant and a tyrannical party. When “your party” is also in agreement with one aspect of the issue, one has to conclude that you are an ignoramus. > **[Correction: Red Flag Laws story](https://apnews.com/general-news-7d707cbd788e4b71b426780b4825dd88)** > > In a story Aug. 24 about red flag laws, The Associated Press reported erroneously that an officer was fatally shot by a man while serving a warrant to take his guns away last year under Maryland's new law. > [@](#): > > Family members and police routinely face agonizing decisions when otherwise lawful gun owners reveal an impulse to harm themselves or others, and more states are enacting laws that let authorities take away their weapons. > > **With bipartisan support in many cases,** 17 states and Washington D.C. have now passed “red flag laws” that allow the court-ordered removal of guns from people who are considered to be dangerous. The back-to-back shootings that killed 31 people this month in Texas and Ohio have given new momentum to proposals pending in several other states and to a plan in Congress to provide grant money to states that adopt such measures. > > In a rare victory for gun control advocates, the laws have spread since the February 2018 shooting that killed 17 students and staff members at a high school in Parkland, Florida. New York’s new law took effect Saturday while New Jersey’s begins Sept. 1. The proliferation of such laws comes despite opposition from gun rights activists and others who say the measures go too far. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/129 "2019-09-13T14:09:09Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > I already told you if it was only about healthcare, I’d be all for it. But it’s not. > > Your party leaders are openly campaigning on literally taking citizens rifles, by force if needed. > > Eternal damnation it is. I’d rather see a crater where DC used to be before voting for a tyrant and a tyrannical party. The alternative isn’t eternal damnation, it’s fascist buffoons who are fucking your country seriously up for personal gain. That’s when they’re not stuffing kids into concentration camps where they can encourage flu epidemics. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/130 "2019-09-13T14:12:47Z")
> [@robby](#): > > [ALL POSSIBLE RESPONSES TO “THEY SHOULD GET IN LINE AND DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, THE WAY MY FAMILY DID,” WITH CITATIONS](https://deportnation.com/all-possible-responses-to-they-should-get-in-line-and-do-it-the-right-way-the-way-my-family-did-ab0b7dbcbb26) I agree. Excellent, informative, and witty. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/131 "2019-09-13T14:31:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Nobody has said otherwise. Why do you feel the need to create this strawman? > > All people have said is that Trump isn’t winning. People have made it clear what they mean by this. Trump won the presidency, but hasn’t accomplished much else. So he’s not “winning” by their definition. Not losing is not the same as “winning.” > > You keep saying that, if he wasn’t Trump, we’d call him a successful president. I argue the exact opposite: **if he wasn’t Trump, you wouldn’t see what he’s accomplished as being remotely successful.** > > You’re just crafting semantic arguments. Those are fucking stupid. Both sides agree that Trump is dangerous. Both sides agree that Trump has currently avoided the consequences. It is fucking stupid to keep debating over whether the word “winning” is appropriate. > > All you are doing is manufacturing disagreement where there is already consensus. And fighting Trump needs us to work together, not tearing each other apart. You are flat out wrong. This isn’t a semantic argument. Politics is a competition between groups of people that both want to be in power. You would hope both parties want what is overall best for the country, but that is not guaranteed. Re-read the OP. I can find dozens of articles that talk about Trumps bumblings, failings and cluelessness and how he is going to be the architect of his own downfall. The last 3 years, and to a certain extent his entire life, have shown that just isn’t going to happen. So, despite all the claims that he is a moronic clown who eats crayons, there he sits, in the presidency, immune from facing any consequences to anything he does. That isn’t a semantic definition of winning in terms of politics. That is flat out winning. He is playing the game against the entire Democratic party and he is untouchable. If you want to semantically define winning to mean his policies are bad for the US, go head. Trump won’t care. He is enriching himself and his family and no one can stop him. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/132 "2019-09-13T14:47:25Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Any maneuver right now is too late. Pretty well the only thing half-sensible thing you’ve said so far. > [@Annoyed](#): > > The left has made the illegal immigrant vote one of the foundations of their long term plan, and it should have never happened. Nope. Immigrants have made the left the foundation of their long term plan, considering the right has become too racist for them. > [@Annoyed](#): > > But that’s just how sleazy they are. Project away from all your awesomely, weaselly, trocky self. > [@Annoyed](#): > > Can’t capture the white vote? Can’t capture the white nationalist vote? There - FTFY. > [@Annoyed](#): > > Import brown votes to offset them. Um, the intent is sanctuary from unlivable situations where the migrants came from. > [@Annoyed](#): > > Can win with the electoral college? Remove it. Pretty weaksauce trolling if you feel the current state of the electoral college is still a legitimate enterprise. > [@Annoyed](#): > > Need more congressional representation? Include illegal aliens & jam refugees in certain districts. Riiiiiight, sorta like what [President Annoyed On Kneepads For Trump](https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3006298/donald-trump-appears-move-forward-sanctuary-cities) had hoped to do. > [@Annoyed](#): > > All the while blocking voter ID laws and screaming about gerrymandering. And more shittier-than-fuck trolling if you think voter ID laws do not disenfranchise minority communities. Sure, democrats gerrymander too, but nowhere near to the grotesque extent that the GOP has, which I know you know. > [@Annoyed](#): > > It’s fucking filth, pure and simple, and people who knowingly support it as a way to sway the electorate are towing a line that’s real close to treason. Possibly some of the most gregioiusly hypocritical “_badly_ in need of a mirror” horseshit I’ve read in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/133 "2019-09-13T15:12:30Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Pretty sure it’s not. You might be upset at all the nasty things the mean old Democrats in your head are doing, but upsetting you is not a crime. It’s not a crime. It’s effortless. > [@Annoyed](#): > > I already told you if it was only about healthcare, I’d be all for it. But it’s not. > > Your party leaders are openly campaigning on literally taking citizens rifles, by force if needed. > > Eternal damnation it is. I’d rather see a crater where DC used to be before voting for a tyrant and a tyrannical party. And Trump is not a tyrant? Hah! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/134 "2019-09-13T15:16:31Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Eternal damnation it is. I’d rather see a crater where DC used to be before voting for a tyrant and a tyrannical party. This doesn’t make you look intrepid or principled: it just makes you look openly delusional. The real-life choice is not between “tyranny” and “a crater where DC used to be”, much less “eternal damnation”. The realistic choice is between a) somewhat more humane, representative, and fiscally responsible politics-as-usual, with some slight bipartisan-supported increase in gun control, under the Democrats; and b) increasingly irresponsible and destructive flailing that destabilizes the economy, sabotages foreign relations, and infringes the rights and undermines the wellbeing of Americans—with some slight bipartisan-supported increase in gun control—under Republican Trumpism. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/135 "2019-09-13T15:19:33Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > That article was so good I literally bought a subscription to the guy’s newsletter. Thanks! So did I! Nice work there. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/136 "2019-09-13T15:41:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > This doesn’t make you look intrepid or principled: it just makes you look openly delusional. > > The real-life choice is not between “tyranny” and “a crater where DC used to be”, much less “eternal damnation”. The realistic choice is between > > a) somewhat more humane, representative, and fiscally responsible politics-as-usual, with some slight bipartisan-supported increase in gun control, under the Democrats; and > > b) increasingly irresponsible and destructive flailing that destabilizes the economy, sabotages foreign relations, and infringes the rights and undermines the wellbeing of Americans—with some slight bipartisan-supported increase in gun control—under Republican Trumpism. I just read some twitter drama with Beto and Swalwell, Beto stating (and selling merch with the same slogans) that he’s gonna take our guns. Another politician chimes in and states he can come get his, and they both dog piled and stated this politician is the reason we need fucking red flag laws, and that Beto is gonna report him to the damn FBI. So Beto is gonna take our guns, and if we dislike it, he would red flag us and report it to the god damn FBI. They are, quite literally, asking for and pushing for a war. Quite possibly the most infuriating political exchange I’ve seen in a while, and quite tyrannical. What you type, and what the reality of what they want to do, and would do given the chance, is drastically different. Tyrannical. And would no doubt kill thousands and thousands of otherwise law abiding Americans & create hundreds of Waco’s and Ruby Ridges. The left wasn’t even this open about it in the events preceding the first AWB, and there are millions more guns and thousands more militia members. But hey, you guys go for it. Push this noise front and center and wonder why Trump wins. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/137 "2019-09-13T15:47:44Z")
There was no mystery to Trump’s win and why he might win again, just disappointment in the failings of America. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/138 "2019-09-13T15:56:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > There was no mystery to Trump’s win and why he might win again, just disappointment in the failings of America. Failings of the Democrat Party is more accurate. They lose and will very likely lose again to an orange man with a retarded comb-over who talks like a complete moron. What does that say about the other party? All they have to do is not be tyrants and fake, pandering psychos and they can’t do it. And the cats out of the bag. They had 2 years to get a plan together and what do they do? Go even more extreme left. Say what you want about Trump but you’re REALLY shit if you’re losing to the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/139 "2019-09-13T15:58:14Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Failings of the Democrat Party is more accurate. Democrat Party? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002/140 "2019-09-13T16:15:25Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > I just read some twitter drama with Beto and Swalwell, Beto stating (and selling merch with the same slogans) that he’s gonna take our guns. Another politician chimes in and states he can come get his, and they both dog piled and stated this politician is the reason we need fucking red flag laws, and that Beto is gonna report him to the damn FBI. > > So Beto is gonna take our guns, and if we dislike it, he would red flag us and report it to the god damn FBI. Cite, though? What exactly is the phrase “take our guns” being used to mean in this context? If Beto or any other politician is using it to mean _“summarily taking away all legally-owned guns from everybody”_, that’s flat-out unconstitutional as the 2nd Amendment currently stands, and the vast majority of Americans (including me) would oppose it. It’s not going to happen, realistically speaking, and no politician with any hope of actually being elected would seriously propose it. If, on the other hand, it just means _“slightly increase restrictions on the types of guns that can be owned or eligibility for owning a gun”_, that’s not necessarily unreasonable **or** unconstitutional. If elected legislators have the support of their constituencies for enacting such measures, well, that’s part of the principle of majority rule in a republic. Gun owners should recognize and accept the ups and downs of (legal and constitutional) majority rule, rather than throwing tantrums about alleged “tyranny” any time a law is passed that they don’t like. > [@Annoyed](#): > > They are, quite literally, asking for and pushing for a war. If gun owners are willing to make the enactment of some additional **constitutional and legal** restrictions on gun ownership an excuse for literally starting a war, **that’s on them** , not on the politicians or voters supporting such restrictions. If you’re saying _“Any attempt to make gun ownership even slightly more restricted in any way is an intolerable act of oppression against gun owners, and I intend to respond to any such restrictions, however legally and constitutionally enacted, with armed and violent resistance”_, then your political opponents are not the ones looking tyrannical and bloodthirsty here. If you are responding to proposed **legal and constitutional** restrictions on gun ownership with raging aggressive rhetoric about how you’ll refuse to comply with any such restrictions even if it means starting a god-damned war or whatever, I can see how the FBI would consider it reasonable to red-flag you. On the other hand, if you make a reasonable case why you think a particular proposed legal and constitutional restriction on gun ownership would be a bad idea, **while at the same time as a law-abiding rational gun owner you acknowledge you need to comply with legal and constitutional restrictions even if you don’t like them** , then you’ll be more likely to get moderate gun-ownership supporters like me defending your position. But if you’re simply raging that you’re going to go to war if anybody does anything that could be remotely interpreted as “taking your guns” in any way, no matter how legally and constitutionally, then you come across as paranoid and dangerous. I’m not gonna defend that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump/840002.md?page=8)