# Trumpcare **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 7, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625 "2017-03-07T15:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/261 "2017-03-17T15:48:49Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Paul Ryan says the new healthcare bill gives people _freedom_… the freedom to buy or not to buy coverage. > > This naturally brings to mind: [Freedom’s Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTHRg_iSWzM) Has this been posted yet? [Paul Ryan: ‘We’re not going to give up on destroying the health care system’](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT3Px11xN-0) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/262 "2017-03-17T16:02:27Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Has this been posted yet? > > [Paul Ryan: ‘We’re not going to give up on destroying the health care system’](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT3Px11xN-0) Finally a moment of honesty from the republicans. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/263 "2017-03-17T16:09:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s one reason I think calling it Wealthcare will backfire. This isn’t redistribution from the poor to the rich. It’s also redistribution from the poor to the middle class, which is a policy that tends to be very popular outside bleeding heart circles. > > Vox explains: > > [2 winners and 3 losers under the CBO score of the GOP health plan - Vox](http://www.vox.com/2017/3/13/14916734/ahca-cbo-winners-losers) > > You know, remove those tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, and you might have a genuine middle class populist bill on your hands. Yeah, but as long as that trillion-dollar tax cut is at the heart of the bill, it’s redistribution to the rich. Seriously, do you think they’re going to take that out? As far as the GOP is concerned, the tax cut is the steak; everything else is the sizzle. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/264 "2017-03-17T18:59:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The issue is actually, “Will my taxes pay for better health care than my premiums?” or in other words, “Is Medicaid better than my Blue Cross plan?” My Medicaid plan is paying for my spouse’s cancer treatment and multiple hospitalizations with zero co-pay or deductible for us (we still have to keep up with premiums). How would your Blue Cross plan do in comparison? Are their downsides to the plan? [Yes, there certainly can be.](http://www.nwitimes.com/business/healthcare/northwest-indiana-residents-run-into-problems-with-hip/article_78902f73-c671-505d-8cd5-9fe869795830.html) The point is, though, that at least some Medicaid plans are as good or better than some Blue Cross plans. Should I point out that this is from the state that Pence was governor over for the past four years? Hardly a bastion of bleeding-heart liberalism. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/265 "2017-03-17T19:26:53Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, but as long as that trillion-dollar tax cut is at the heart of the bill, it’s redistribution to the rich. > > Seriously, do you think they’re going to take that out? As far as the GOP is concerned, the tax cut is the steak; everything else is the sizzle. The right always wants to turn the country back to the Good Old Days ™ of Eisenhower and the fifties. Except for that 90% tax rate. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/266 "2017-03-18T16:05:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The rest of civilization does not have single payer. I think what you mean is that there should be a public option, but with private options still there for whoever wants them. That’s what most countries actually do. But that’s multi-payer. The only true single payer countries I know of are Britain and Canada, although I’m sure there are a few others. Japan is a big one. You have to kick in some of your own dough but it’s a universal health insurance system for most costs, and it’s not optional. Italy, Sweden, Spain and Norway are all single-payer. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/267 "2017-03-20T14:07:46Z")
Oh man, this is golden. The White House has walked back Trump’s [“insurance for everybody” promise.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-insurance-mulvaney_us_58cea736e4b00705db502fef?mvq1e5ddvz6txd2t9&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009) I swear, the walk-back of that promise is going to make Obama’s “keep your plan” fiasco look like child’s play. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/268 "2017-03-20T14:46:44Z")
Eh, nobody who wasn’t already drinking the Kool-Aid should be surprised by that. And the rest will find some delusional way to blame it on Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/269 "2017-03-20T20:31:23Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Eh, nobody who wasn’t already drinking the Kool-Aid should be surprised by that. And the rest will find some delusional way to blame it on Obama. This. Really, the only parts of the “plan” that are important to Republicans are: 1. Get massive tax breaks to the wealthy 2. Figure out how to blame the resultant deaths on Obama. Anything other than that is just window dressing, as far as they’re concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/270 "2017-03-20T21:29:45Z")
Ryan is already [talking changes to Trumpcare.](https://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/repeal-and-replace/63977) > [@](#): > > In a tacit admission that older Americans could take a big financial hit from the Republican healthcare bill now making its way through Congress, House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said on Sunday that he is seeking changes in the legislation. > > “We believe we should have even more assistance – and that’s one of the things we’re looking at – for that person in their 50s and 60s because they experience higher healthcare costs,” he said on the “Fox News Sunday” television program. This actually surprises me. I thought Ryan was one of the authors of the bill. Is it possible he didn’t realize it was going to skyrocket premiums for older Americans? If he did realize that (and, really, how could he not?) did the guy who is supposed to be such a consummate politician not foresee that the AARP was going to be all over his ass for it? Really – what the hell is going on here? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/271 "2017-03-20T22:17:42Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > Really – what the hell is going on here? Ryan didn’t realize anybody would notice. He hoped that Trump’s tweets about the latest on Celebrity Apprentice, or what some Hollywood person was wearing would keep everyone focused on other things… ---
**Author:** ![Caldazar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Caldazar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caldazar)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/272 "2017-03-21T15:40:43Z")
PSA: The House is planning to vote this Thursday on the AHCA. Contact your congressman and let him/her know where you stand. ([http://www.house.gov/](http://www.house.gov/) \> Find Your Representative (upper right) ). Latest copy of the AHCA is here: [https://housegop.leadpages.co/healthcare/#download-bill](https://housegop.leadpages.co/healthcare/#download-bill) ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/273 "2017-03-21T16:40:48Z")
I do write to my ‘Representative’ and I visit his office with specific questions. The only result is that he’s added me to his emailed newsletter. He’s a wealthy rancher who is afraid to hold town hall meetings. Must be Democracy in action. Crane ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/274 "2017-03-22T20:56:31Z")
Can someone explain something to me, please. The far-right House members (“Freedom Caucus”) are threatening to vote “no” on Ryan/Trumpcare tomorrow because they say their constituents want them to REPEAL Obamacare and nothing short of that will do. _\_ Ryan/Trumpcare eviscerates, emasculates and all but decapitates O’care, so what more SPECIFICALLY do these guys want to happen to it so they can claim with straight faces that they got it repealed? From what I understand, the ACA is so big and complicated and web-like that it can’t simply be repealed in _one swell foop_, the way you might change the speed limit or raise/lower the legal age to buy alcohol. So WTF do they want? What will satisfy them? P.S. I don’t believe they give a rat’s ass about the law or health care one way or the other but only about satisfying their small-minded constituents. P.P.S. I wonder if all of their constituents still feel this way about the ACA now that people are finding out the real potential downside. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/275 "2017-03-22T21:11:25Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Can someone explain something to me, please. > > The far-right House members (“Freedom Caucus”) are threatening to vote “no” on Ryan/Trumpcare tomorrow because they say their constituents want them to REPEAL Obamacare and nothing short of that will do. _\_ > > Ryan/Trumpcare eviscerates, emasculates and all but decapitates O’care, so what more SPECIFICALLY do these guys want to happen to it so they can claim with straight faces that they got it repealed? > > From what I understand, the ACA is so big and complicated and web-like that it can’t simply be repealed in _one swell foop_, the way you might change the speed limit or raise/lower the legal age to buy alcohol. > > So WTF do they want? What will satisfy them? > > P.S. I don’t believe they give a rat’s ass about the law or health care one way or the other but only about satisfying their small-minded constituents. > > P.P.S. I wonder if all of their constituents still feel this way about the ACA now that people are finding out the real potential downside. They want to get rid of the laws that cannot be changed via reconciliation. The ACA did a lot, both in and out of the insurance market. For example: They want to get rid of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation, the Independent Payment Advisory Board, and other sub agencies created by the ACA. They want to eliminate the rules about guaranteed issue and preexisting conditions and essential health benefits. They want to eliminate the Medicare free preventive services. They probably want to reinstate the doughnut hole for Part D. They want to eliminate the refundable tax credits. At most, they want tax deductions (deductions are less powerful for low-income people). They want to eliminate the expansion of Medicaid (they actually get very close to this, but not completely). Those are just examples. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/276 "2017-03-22T21:17:56Z")
Thanks for that **jsgoddess**. I just read in the [Washington Post](http://wapo.st/2mPwL2b): > [@](#): > > … > Conservatives are seeking to eliminate more of the Affordable Care Act’s insurance mandates, known as “essential benefits,” which require plans to include, among other things, mental health, prescription drug and preventive care coverage. That, they argue, is the only reliable way to force down premiums… What role (if any) does the Freedom Caucus believe the federal or any government should play in the well-being of the poor, disabled, and/or elderly in our country? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/277 "2017-03-22T21:58:05Z")
I think Republicans want to strip as much out of it as possible so that insurance companies can charge reasonable premiums while not providing any sort of service whatsoever in return. Gotta look out for those shareholder, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/278 "2017-03-22T22:04:52Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > What role (if any) does the Freedom Caucus believe the federal or any government should play in the well-being of the poor, disabled, and/or elderly in our country? None. Zero. Zip. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/279 "2017-03-22T22:12:00Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > None. > > Zero. > > Zip. Got it. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/280 "2017-03-22T22:24:44Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > So WTF do they want? What will satisfy them? - Tax deductions for the people who send their party money. - People who can afford it can pay for their own health care insurance - No health care at all for “undesireables” (defined as those who do not send their party money) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625.md?page=15)