# Trumpcare **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 7, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625 "2017-03-07T15:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/581 "2017-03-26T11:55:34Z")
The way my grandmother got around the nursing home rules was by giving away everything of value she had to her children more than five years before she needed nursing care. Though of course this does depend on having a child (or other loved one) you can trust to own your house while you’re still living in it for years. And it turned out to not even be necessary, because two of her children were both willing and able to provide her with end-of-life care at their own homes (one of the benefits of having a big family). Still far from ideal, though. EDIT: Pardon me a moment, **adaher** , while I have a moment of pity for the poor set-upon insurance companies who are suffering from this plan. OK, moment’s over. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/582 "2017-03-26T12:09:49Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Keeping Obamacare for now probably helps Trump. It’s a mess and the Democrats own it. Had it been overturned, the media would surely blow those adversely affected out of proportion. And you’re in a position to determine the proper way to report on it? Neat. Anyway, what does “the Democrats own it” even mean? It’s federal policy. It’s your government’s job to implement it. No one “owns” it. Unless there’s a board or committee or something composed solely of Democrats made responsible for implementing this policy, the Republicans calling the shots “own” it. > [@](#): > > Sure a few Republicans like it…they are getting their pockets, er campaigns stuffed by groups that are for it. It’s not about like. > [@](#): > > Trump can say he tried, but I think he knew it would not happen yet. He can say he was the first black man to set foot on Mars, that doesn’t make it so. I don’t think he understood what was in it in any way, shape or form. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/583 "2017-03-26T12:30:45Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Keeping Obamacare for now probably helps Trump. **It’s a mess and the Democrats own it.** Had it been overturned, the media would surely blow those adversely affected out of proportion. After 60(?) votes to repeal that failed, the GOP had a chance to replace it with something better yet they couldn’t agree on a plan. Therefore, at this point, the ACA is better than anything the GOP can come up with. Ownership has been transferred. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/584 "2017-03-26T12:43:21Z")
An argument claiming that “now the Democrats own the ACA” shows a _stunning_ lack of understanding of the past 8 years of American politics. The Dems have _always_ “owned” the ACA. Where you been the past decade, Silver Lining? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/585 "2017-03-26T13:31:17Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > An argument claiming that “now the Democrats own the ACA” shows a _stunning_ lack of understanding of the past 8 years of American politics. The Dems have _always_ “owned” the ACA. Where you been the past decade, Silver Lining? Under the “You touched it last” rule of ownership, all health care under any name is now hanging around the Republicans’ neck. With complete authority over all branches of government they took a long and comprehensive look at health care in America and said “yup, Obamacare, that’s what we want” and that’s where we are. Republicans own it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/586 "2017-03-26T13:48:24Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Under the “You touched it last” rule of ownership, all health care under any name is now hanging around the Republicans’ neck. With complete authority over all branches of government\*\* they took a long and comprehensive look at health care in America\*\* and said “yup, Obamacare, that’s what we want” and that’s where we are. Republicans own it. I doubt this part. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/587 "2017-03-26T13:48:40Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > That’s one of the reasons restructuring everything would be a good idea right now, 'cause otherwise we are going to hurt so very, very much. Get rid of the institutional bias (Medicaid has a mandatory pay for nursing facility care but it’s optional for the cheaper and usually preferable HCBS), support family and paid caregivers, amp up end of life counseling and advance directives, integrate M-aid services into M-are, with sliding scale cost sharing for low-income beneficiaries, etc. > > We don’t have to reinvent the wheel, we just have to decide that we are not all tycoons in the making and acknowledge that we are a society. AMEN! I hope enough people like us here take advantage of the current momentum! My personal rant of late has been to allow crossover between the VA and Medicare. Remove copays and such for VA recipients. Any VA recipient can see any Medicare provider at any copay (or lack thereof) that they’d pay under the VA. Boom, VA access problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/588 "2017-03-26T13:49:41Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Keeping Obamacare for now probably helps Trump. It’s a mess and the Democrats own it. Had it been overturned, the media would surely blow those adversely affected out of proportion. > > Sure a few Republicans like it…they are getting their pockets, er campaigns stuffed by groups that are for it. > > Trump can say he tried, but I think he knew it would not happen yet. > > This is a second term type of change…once you do not need to be re-elected. Notes from the Trump 2020 **Silver lining** playbook?: “Trump could have fixed everything in the first four years but there’d be nothing left for him to do in his second term.” ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/589 "2017-03-26T13:50:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We won’t really know the exact status of ACA until the insurers actually start charging prices commensurate with what they are spending on benefits. Most insurers are losing money by keeping rates artificially low. [Funny that one of the smallest insurance companies has worked outside the box and has mostly turned a profit on Obamacare plans.](http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/02/28/516495579/this-ceos-small-insurance-firm-mostly-turned-a-profit-under-obamacare-heres-how) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/590 "2017-03-26T14:00:26Z")
True. My point was simply that the law has been called “Obamacare” since its inception - who else did Silver Lining think owned “Obamacare” - the Libertarians? ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/591 "2017-03-26T14:06:30Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > No, if we take as evidence, say, every other country on earth, it would be cheaper than what we have now. Objections aren’t on cost reasons, they’re on “people we consider undesirable could get health care” reasons, and maybe a little bit of “we don’t want all the current middlemen to lose their jobs.” The latter worries me a teensy bit. But it’s unlikely that everyone who works in health insurance would lose their jobs. Medicare’s administrative work is done by contractors – Blue Cross, Aetna, etc., compete for these contracts. A good portion of the administrative work would need to be absorbed by…someone. So let them compete. And let them sell additional benefit contracts to employer groups. But Pharma Benefit Management groups can go die in a fire. Fuck you, CVS PBMs. Like talking to an intellectually challenged brick wall. So it’s totally “people we consider undesirable could get health care”. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > Ha! Yes, it’s complicated. But the real problem with my pontificating about how we get there from here is that it’s not that we can’t do it for policy reasons. Policy reasons support it. We can’t do it for political reasons. > > So, I can say that Medicare is a pretty good program, and I would support its expansion to the general populace with the huge caveat that the program would need to be expanded not only in eligibility but in scope. And the cost-sharing in the program are not acceptable for UHC. > > \ > > In addition, Medicare does not cover some vital services: Oral and dental health, in general, eyes and ears, and the room-sized elephant that’s taking up all of the space, long-term care. And medications. You have to purchase a separate Part D policy to cover drugs, and drugs are ridiculously expensive, for a ridiculously long time, because the government is not willing to play hardball with the pharma companies. And let’s not get into Medicare A, vs., B, and the confusing inpatient/outpatient permutations that exist. “Outpatient observation” is the bane of my existence right now. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/592 "2017-03-26T15:11:08Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, I’ll take their being ‘pro-life’ seriously when they have the same passion about protecting lives of the already-born as they seem to have for the ‘unborn.’ I will not call them ‘pro-life’. I call them ‘pro-birth’. (Or occasionally, ‘anti-choice’.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/593 "2017-03-26T15:42:18Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Anyway, what does “the Democrats own it” even mean? It’s federal policy. It’s your government’s job to implement it. No one “owns” it. Unless there’s a board or committee or something composed solely of Democrats made responsible for implementing this policy, the Republicans calling the shots “own” it. This is a central point everyone should understand. If you get into power and spend your time saying, “I know a bunch of people are going to get sick and die, and I’m gonna stand over here spending my time explaining why you should blame my opponents instead of working like hell to fix it,” that’s some severe bullshit you’re engaged in. Implement a plan to replace the ACA, no problem (snerk). If it’s a good plan, i.e., it protects people’s health and lowers costs, I’ll support you. BUT UNTIL YOU DO THAT, don’t sabotage the law in a way that leads to additional deaths in order to gain some advantageous optics. Doing so may not legally be mass murder, but ethically it is. Responsible Republicans should be clamoring to enforce the provisions of ACA that make it work to the extent that it does, up to the point that their replacement law takes effect. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/594 "2017-03-26T15:44:07Z")
Legal question: AIUI, Trump has directed agencies to lessen the impact of ACA, basically giving a wink and a nod to not enforcing provisions such as mandatory insurance. Is this correct? This wink-and-nod is going to reduce the number of healthy Americans who purchase insurance, which will eat into insurance company profits. Is this correct? Is there any reasonable legal argument that insurance companies would have standing to sue federal agencies who refuse to enforce the law, when such refusal harms their bottom line? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/595 "2017-03-26T17:23:59Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I will not call them ‘pro-life’. I call them ‘pro-birth’. (Or occasionally, ‘anti-choice’.) Yeah, I go with ‘pro-birth’ too. After all, it’s the miracle of birth that magically turns those ‘unborn babies’ that they’re so devoted to, into little moochers and takers. (Some miracle, huh?) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/596 "2017-03-26T17:37:20Z")
Seems to me this was an easy win - all they had to do was start referring to Obamacare as the ‘Affordable Care Act’ and fix a couple of problems with it. Obamacare is dead - long live the Affordable Care Act. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/597 "2017-03-26T18:02:31Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Seems to me this was an easy win - all they had to do was start referring to Obamacare as the ‘Affordable Care Act’ and fix a couple of problems with it. > > Obamacare is dead - long live the Affordable Care Act. True. It’s interesting how this pinning-a-president’s-name-on-a-program is a recent phenomenon. You don’t hear Social Security being called “Roosevelfare,” or the EPA “Nixomental Protection Agency”… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/598 "2017-03-26T18:09:30Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Seems to me this was an easy win - all they had to do was start referring to Obamacare as the ‘Affordable Care Act’ and fix a couple of problems with it. > > Obamacare is dead - long live the Affordable Care Act. Depends on your goals and objectives, of course. If you really hate the notion of the government helping the needy (or keeping people from becoming needy to begin with, which is really what health insurance should do if it works properly), and you want to both end that and give the rich a big tax cut (IOW, imagine that you’re Paul Ryan), but you want to try to camouflage the fact that that’s what you’re doing, you get the AHCA. What you describe would have been an easy win, but it would have been an easy win for a GOP that bears no resemblance to the one we’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/599 "2017-03-26T18:11:57Z")
Preibus on Fox News Sunday: “We can’t be chasing the perfect all the time. I mean, sometimes you have to take the good and put it in your pocket and take the win.” If this bill was ‘good,’ I’d shudder to see ‘perfect.’ I’d use words like ‘malevolent’ and ‘evil’ myself. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/600 "2017-03-26T18:45:51Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Seems to me this was an easy win - all they had to do was start referring to Obamacare as the ‘Affordable Care Act’ and fix a couple of problems with it. > > Obamacare is dead - long live the Affordable Care Act. Stop that! You’re being reasonable again! Sorry, won’t work in this environment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625.md?page=31)