# Trumpcare **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 7, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625 "2017-03-07T15:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![quimper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7c8e57/32.png) [@quimper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quimper)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/621 "2017-03-27T14:57:36Z")
Fixing Obamacare is easy. Reinstate the coverage mandates and expand Medicaid. Neither of these are politically possible, so the exchanges will probably start collapsing sometime in 2018. Just in time for midterms. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/622 "2017-03-27T15:14:23Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > In a surprising moment of clarity and candor, Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) said that the House moved too fast on the ACA repeal bill. **Cotton said 18 days was not enough time to get such a big piece of legislation done** , and he said that the Republicans needed to emulate the “careful and deliberative” approach the Democrats took in getting the ACA through initially. > > Uh. Ya THINK? > > 😃 > > [Tom Cotton: GOP ‘Moved A Bit Too Fast’ On Repeal, Compared To Dems On ACA - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/tom-cotton-gop-moved-too-fast-on-repeal-compared-to-dems-on-obamacare) > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Um… apparently 8 years wasn’t enough time either. Actually, they had since the election. Trump made it clear he expected a plan on his desk on his first day in office. I think during those eight years they never expected to do more than fail to repeal so they had no reason to have anything ready. When you’re posturing, you don’t expect to have to _do_ anything. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/623 "2017-03-27T15:24:25Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Actually, they had since the election. Trump made it clear he expected a plan on his desk on his first day in office. No, he didn’t. He implied that he already had a plan that would be ‘great,’ that would be cheaper and cover more people and basically be the best thing since sliced bread. In other words, just another promise-the-moon line of bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/624 "2017-03-27T15:29:14Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > No, he didn’t. He implied that he already had a plan that would be ‘great,’ that would be cheaper and cover more people and basically be the best thing since sliced bread. In other words, just another promise-the-moon line of bullshit. nitpick. He said it would cove_ **r everyone.** _ And of course, he acted like he already had a plan. What an ass. Sad! > [@](#): > > “It’s going to be — what my plan is is that I want to take care of everybody,” Trump said. “I’m not going to leave the lower 20% that can’t afford insurance.” > [@](#): > > “We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump told The Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” > > “[They] can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/625 "2017-03-27T15:36:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > No, he didn’t. He implied that he already had a plan that would be ‘great,’ that would be cheaper and cover more people and basically be the best thing since sliced bread. In other words, just another promise-the-moon line of bullshit. That was his plan to defeat ISIS. [From here.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/03/24/its-true-trump-didnt-pledge-obamacare-repeal-in-64-days-he-pledged-it-in-one/) > [@](#): > > Trump is correct: At no point in time did he pledge to repeal and replace Obamacare in 61 or 64 days. Instead, he pledged to demand a repeal on Day One — even if it took a special session of Congress to make it happen. He pledged on several occasions to repeal it “immediately.” The message he conveyed to his voters was very much not that “this is something we will get to eventually” but that this was something that would come first on the agenda. > > Rally in Ohio, September 2016: “On my first day I’m going to ask **Congress to immediately send me a bill** to repeal and replace Obamacare.” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/626 "2017-03-27T17:03:01Z")
At the risk of defending that useless orange jackass, to “ask on day one” is not the same as to “receive on day one”. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/627 "2017-03-27T17:13:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > At the risk of defending that useless orange jackass, to “ask on day one” is not the same as to “receive on day one”. “[immediately](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/immediately) send me a bill” means “I want it _now_”. > [@](#): > > 1. > > **without lapse of time; without delay; instantly; at once:** > Please telephone him immediately. > 2. > with no object or space intervening. > 3. > closely: > immediately in the vicinity. > 4. > without intervening medium or agent; concerning or affecting directly ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/628 "2017-03-27T17:17:13Z")
Regardless of what he meant, the fact is that the GOP did have 7 years to craft something… and failed Trump immensely in their duty. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/629 "2017-03-27T17:30:24Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Regardless of what he meant, the fact is that the GOP did have 7 years to craft something… and failed Trump immensely in their duty. I think they failed the American people. They never thought they would control everything so they thought they could run against Obamacare in perpetuity. One would think that after the election they might think about what they want to propose but one would be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/630 "2017-03-27T17:42:29Z")
Well, that brings up an interesting counter-factual: If the nominee/winner would have been a more traditional Repub (say that JEB! won)… would this bill be as half-assed as it was? ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/631 "2017-03-27T17:44:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The White House thought they had the votes until someone double checked Betsy DeVos’ math. > > Here’s what Democrats should be doing: start drafting a comprehensive bill to fix what’s wrong with the ACA. Get buy-in from the health care field by involving them from the start. Start promoting the bill in town halls and in ads. Run on it in the 2018 midterms. Let people see what they would get when Democrats regain the majority. Given a clear choice between the hastily contrived Republican bill and the carefully crafted Democratic alternative, Democrats will come on top. You can’t waste your time in opposition by merely being against everything, you have to propose realistic alternatives- something Republicans did not do. I agree. I’ve communicated to my reps in Massachusetts (who don’t take any convincing, hello RomneyCare) and my reps in Florida (who are dumb as a sack of hair and may be robots) that Trumpcare is not an option, that the ACA needs to be improved, and suggestions to improve it. I’ve also told the Florida Republicans that they need to put aside party protocol and think of the huge number of uninsured and underinsured in Florida. These uninsured and people who can’t afford insurance is down to Gov. Scott refusing the Medicaid expansion (FREE MONEY) out of sheer political spite. Apparently he only likes federal healthcare dollars when he’s bilking the system for it through HCA hospital claims. I also said that a bipartisan committee is needed to get this done, and it the decisions must be based on verifiable DATA and FACTS, not party politics and not sound bytes about Gramma facing a death panel. Bring in healthcare analysts _not tied to insurance interests_ to run the data. Most of the ones I know have too much respect for data to try to make it say something it doesn’t. The committee can review all kinds of CMS data and market data to figure out what does and doesn’t work. They can demonstrate to other politicians and the American people how not accessing care because of cost is not a savings; it is just kicking the costs down the road and making them larger. Fucking hell, I can do that part. I already have a powerpoint presentation on the subject. tl;dr — I’ve been a boring wonk contacting lots and lots of elected people. I’ve offered my services to Bernie and Liz Warren. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/632 "2017-03-27T17:47:15Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Well, that brings up an interesting counter-factual: If the nominee/winner would have been a more traditional Repub (say that JEB! won)… would this bill be as half-assed as it was? I think so. The problem isn’t really Trump, it’s that the American populace and the Republican party are not viewing healthcare the same way. That means that moderate or at least less ideological GOPers bail out when they get pushback. So, what can you do if you’re the Republican party and you want to repeal the ACA? You can fiddle a bit at the edges, but if you tinker too much, the CBO lays the hammer down and the moderates get pushback and you panic. If you don’t do enough, the Freedom Caucus guys torch it. Last rumor I heard was nearly 100 Republicans would have voted no. This is a rumor, so it’s obviously untested and unproven, but for it even to be sounding plausible is a bad sign. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/633 "2017-03-27T17:51:12Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Well, that brings up an interesting counter-factual: If the nominee/winner would have been a more traditional Repub (say that JEB! won)… would this bill be as half-assed as it was? Not only half-assed but low energy as well. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/634 "2017-03-27T19:35:51Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Not only half-assed but low energy as well. “President Bush, if your new healthcare system could only cover one STD, which one would it be?” “Please clap.” ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/635 "2017-03-27T20:03:44Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think so. The problem isn’t really Trump, it’s that the American populace and the Republican party are not viewing healthcare the same way. That means that moderate or at least less ideological GOPers bail out when they get pushback. > > So, what can you do if you’re the Republican party and you want to repeal the ACA? You can fiddle a bit at the edges, but if you tinker too much, the CBO lays the hammer down and the moderates get pushback and you panic. If you don’t do enough, the Freedom Caucus guys torch it. > > Last rumor I heard was nearly 100 Republicans would have voted no. This is a rumor, so it’s obviously untested and unproven, but for it even to be sounding plausible is a bad sign. Hence, I think, the sudden calls from a number of Republicans that a bipartisan effort is needed. Moderate Republicans and Democrats working together can pass a bill over the Freedom Caucus that would improve the ACA, after, as **GrumpyBunny** points out, actual review and consideration of what might work best. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/636 "2017-03-28T15:12:38Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > “[immediately](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/immediately) send me a bill” means “I want it _now_”. > > > [@](#): > > > > 1. > > > > without lapse of time; without delay; instantly; at once: > > Please telephone him immediately. > > 2. > > with no object or space intervening. > > 3. > > closely: > > immediately in the vicinity. > > 4. > > without intervening medium or agent; concerning or affecting directly But the universe is six thousand years old (give or take thirteen billion years). Looking at that kind of a timeframe, anything within about twenty years is _KINDA_ immediate… ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/637 "2017-03-28T19:50:07Z")
The biggest problem with health care is the cost of insurance. Its too high. There’s too much suing going on, and some doctors are going out of business thanks to the cost of insurance. Perhaps one solution to lower costs would be for patients to agree for caps on ligation, in exchange for say a lower premium. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/638 "2017-03-28T19:56:36Z")
Trump care is best described to me as the famous chinese restaurant ‘Yan Yone’ which sounds a hell of like ‘you are on your own’. ---
**Author:** ![quimper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7c8e57/32.png) [@quimper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quimper)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/639 "2017-03-28T19:57:24Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think so. The problem isn’t really Trump, it’s that the American populace and the Republican party are not viewing healthcare the same way. That means that moderate or at least less ideological GOPers bail out when they get pushback. > > So, what can you do if you’re the Republican party and you want to repeal the ACA? You can fiddle a bit at the edges, but if you tinker too much, the CBO lays the hammer down and the moderates get pushback and you panic. If you don’t do enough, the Freedom Caucus guys torch it. > > Last rumor I heard was nearly 100 Republicans would have voted no. This is a rumor, so it’s obviously untested and unproven, but for it even to be sounding plausible is a bad sign. Is that 100 figure from just the house? That would be startling. My understanding was that even before the CBO score every GOP senator was praying for the bill to be euthanized via house committee. Once the 24 million figure came out they all ran for cover. Ryan really shit the bed with this bill. ACA repeal and replace was supposed to be a slam dunk compared to tax reform. One wonders the many ways the GOP will step on their own dick when it comes time to explain how border tax adjustments won’t spark a trade war or cause an immediate 20% rise in prices. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/640 "2017-03-28T19:58:51Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The biggest problem with health care is the cost of insurance. > > Its too high. There’s too much suing going on, and some doctors are going out of business thanks to the cost of insurance. > > Perhaps one solution to lower costs would be for patients to agree for **caps on ligation** , in exchange for say a lower premium. Why would anyone agree to let bleeding go untreated? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625.md?page=33)