# Trumpcare **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 7, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625 "2017-03-07T15:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/641 "2017-03-28T19:59:11Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The biggest problem with health care is the cost of insurance. > > Its too high. There’s too much suing going on, and some doctors are going out of business thanks to the cost of insurance. > > Perhaps one solution to lower costs would be for patients to agree for caps on ligation, in exchange for say a lower premium. Caps sound great until a doctor screws up and your life is ruined. Lawsuits are not the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/642 "2017-03-28T20:01:48Z")
If Trump really wants to work with a coalition of Democrats and moderate Republicans, the first thing he needs to do is rescind the EO that cripples the mandates. And the Dems should call for this immediately. And vocally. And they should be loud when they are turned down. You can blather all you want about the ACA being about to fail, but with the EO in place it like bragging that you KNOW your neighbors car is going to fail - after you opened the hood and removed a bunch of random parts. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/643 "2017-03-28T20:04:58Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The biggest problem with health care is the cost of insurance. > > Its too high. There’s too much suing going on, and some doctors are going out of business thanks to the cost of insurance. > > Perhaps one solution to lower costs would be for patients to agree for caps on ligation, in exchange for say a lower premium. There are caps on litigation. Under normal circumstances, a malpractice suit is just looking to recover damages, and make the patient whole. This means suing for the amount required to fix the problem the first procedure created, and also suing for expenses related to being hospitalized for an extra period of time. This may mean missed work, this may mean paying daycare and babysitters. There may be a quality of life change after a botched surgery. If a patient requires an in-home nurse a few times a week, or needs to update their home or vehicle to deal with a new handicap caused by the doctor, that’s also money out of the patient’s pocket. Are you saying that those are the parts that shouldn’t be made whole? Which parts? Should the patient have to pay to have a medical procedure that is only necessary because of medical practitioner’s mistake? Should the patient have to lose their wages, or have large payouts required of them, due to no action of their own? Should the patient just accept the new quality of life and costs of living that have been required of them due to someone else’s error? Then there are punitive damages. These are rare, but ware awarded by a jury or judge when it is shown that someone has been grossly incompetent, or even intentionally harmful. In these cases, the point of the money is to punish the doctor, and to discourage other doctors from cutting corners or actively harming their patients. If punitive damages were restricted, then doctors would not have to worry about consequences of poor performance on their parts. Then there’s the fact that all of malpractice, including the bulk of the cost of defensive care, (unnecessary tests and procedures doctors prescribe from a CYA perspective) is less than 3% of all healthcare spending, so even if you essentially just eliminated medical liability altogether, you are not going to put any sort of dent in the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/644 "2017-03-28T20:10:35Z")
> [@quimper](#): > > Is that 100 figure from just the house? That would be startling. > > My understanding was that even before the CBO score every GOP senator was praying for the bill to be euthanized via house committee. Once the 24 million figure came out they all ran for cover. > > Ryan really shit the bed with this bill. ACA repeal and replace was supposed to be a slam dunk compared to tax reform. One wonders the many ways the GOP will step on their own dick when it comes time to explain how border tax adjustments won’t spark a trade war or cause an immediate 20% rise in prices. I read this excellent article the other day on The Atlantic, titled “[How the right-wing media saved obamacare](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/the-right-wing-media-helped-obamacare-in-spite-of-itself/520851/)”. It talks about how the way the right-wing media talked about Obamacare wasn’t just “this bill is wrong”, but rather, “this bill is going to kill your parents”. Not, “Here is a cogent and realistic critique of the bill” but “Obamacare was drafted as population control!” So when the actual _costs_ of repealing Obamacare became an actual topic, people were blindsided. The republicans never had to, and therefore never tried to, make the case for why we should _really_ repeal Obamacare. Because they had a case. Based completely on bullshit, but their base already _knew_ that Obamacare was killing people and completely awful and a statist ploy, and given that, how do you walk them back? Even if you _wanted_ to seriously talk about it, you’re oging to end up confusing the ever-loving hell out of your base, who wonders why you’re talking about “tradeoffs” when talking about death panels. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/645 "2017-03-28T20:10:52Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > There are caps on litigation. > > Under normal circumstances, a malpractice suit is just looking to recover damages, and make the patient whole. This means suing for the amount required to fix the problem the first procedure created, and also suing for expenses related to being hospitalized for an extra period of time. This may mean missed work, this may mean paying daycare and babysitters. There may be a quality of life change after a botched surgery. If a patient requires an in-home nurse a few times a week, or needs to update their home or vehicle to deal with a new handicap caused by the doctor, that’s also money out of the patient’s pocket. > > Are you saying that those are the parts that shouldn’t be made whole? Which parts? Should the patient have to pay to have a medical procedure that is only necessary because of medical practitioner’s mistake? Should the patient have to lose their wages, or have large payouts required of them, due to no action of their own? Should the patient just accept the new quality of life and costs of living that have been required of them due to someone else’s error? > > Then there are punitive damages. These are rare, but ware awarded by a jury or judge when it is shown that someone has been grossly incompetent, or even intentionally harmful. In these cases, the point of the money is to punish the doctor, and to discourage other doctors from cutting corners or actively harming their patients. If punitive damages were restricted, then doctors would not have to worry about consequences of poor performance on their parts. > > Then there’s the fact that all of malpractice, including the bulk of the cost of defensive care, (unnecessary tests and procedures doctors prescribe from a CYA perspective) is less than 3% of all healthcare spending, so even if you essentially just eliminated medical liability altogether, you are not going to put any sort of dent in the issue. you and your damn facts again - ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/646 "2017-03-28T21:06:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > There are caps on litigation. > > Under normal circumstances, a malpractice suit is just looking to recover damages, and make the patient whole. This means suing for the amount required to fix the problem the first procedure created, and also suing for expenses related to being hospitalized for an extra period of time. This may mean missed work, this may mean paying daycare and babysitters. There may be a quality of life change after a botched surgery. If a patient requires an in-home nurse a few times a week, or needs to update their home or vehicle to deal with a new handicap caused by the doctor, that’s also money out of the patient’s pocket. > > Are you saying that those are the parts that shouldn’t be made whole? Which parts? Should the patient have to pay to have a medical procedure that is only necessary because of medical practitioner’s mistake? Should the patient have to lose their wages, or have large payouts required of them, due to no action of their own? Should the patient just accept the new quality of life and costs of living that have been required of them due to someone else’s error? > > Then there are punitive damages. These are rare, but ware awarded by a jury or judge when it is shown that someone has been grossly incompetent, or even intentionally harmful. In these cases, the point of the money is to punish the doctor, and to discourage other doctors from cutting corners or actively harming their patients. If punitive damages were restricted, then doctors would not have to worry about consequences of poor performance on their parts. > > Then there’s the fact that all of malpractice, including the bulk of the cost of defensive care, (unnecessary tests and procedures doctors prescribe from a CYA perspective) is less than 3% of all healthcare spending, so even if you essentially just eliminated medical liability altogether, you are not going to put any sort of dent in the issue. THANK YOU! I think “caps” is another supposed solution that is neither helpful nor necessary. in fact, it’s just a distraction. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/647 "2017-03-28T22:14:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Responsible Republicans should be clamoring to enforce the provisions of ACA that make it work to the extent that it does, up to the point that their replacement law takes effect. Which is [what Democrats did](http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/how-democrats-saved-bushs-medicare-drug-program) when Bush signed the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act (Medicare Part D) in spite of their votes against it: > [@](#): > > Most Democratic Senators and almost all Democratic House members voted against Bush’s Medicare Rx plan because they considered it an unnecessarily expensive, unfunded giveaway to insurance companies and pharmaceutical firms. But unlike Republican obstructionists who went to the Supreme Court, attempted to repeal and defund the law, blocked the expansion of Medicaid, refused to set up their own state health care exchanges, sought to cut-off funds for Obamacare “navigators,” tried to halt spending on outreach and customer service, and even proclaimed they would refuse to answer constituent calls, Democrats at all levels helped save Bush’s signature health care achievement from its disastrous roll-out. As then-Senator Hillary Clinton reasoned in 2006: > > > [@](#): > > > > “I voted against it, but once it passed I certainly determined that I would try to do everything I could to make sure that New Yorkers understood it, could access it, and make the best of it.” > > Part of the reason for Part D’s rebound was simple. For tens of millions of American seniors, Part D was better than the alternative: nothing. As the Bush administration’s bureaucratic bungles were ironed out over time (aided in large part by governors who stepped into provide resources, support and cash), public support increased. By October 2012, the Kaiser Family Foundation reported, “Survey finds seniors satisfied with Medicare Part D.” Of course this required working to help constituents and identify weak points in the law and attempt to make them better. In other words, governing. And putting country before party. Not GOP strong suits. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/648 "2017-03-28T23:53:27Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The biggest problem with health care is the cost of insurance. > > Its too high. There’s too much suing going on, and some doctors are going out of business thanks to the cost of insurance. > > Perhaps one solution to lower costs would be for patients to agree for caps on ligation, in exchange for say a lower premium. Would be interesting to set a firm cap on premiums, demand even more benefits, and watch insurance CEOs squirm - and penalties if they go bankrupt. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/649 "2017-03-29T00:49:57Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The biggest problem with health care is the cost of insurance. > > Its too high. There’s too much suing going on, and some doctors are going out of business thanks to the cost of insurance. > > Perhaps one solution to lower costs would be for patients to agree for caps on ligation, in exchange for say a lower premium. I think this reasoning is a bit cloudy. This [informative article](http://truecostofhealthcare.net/malpractice/) puts some perspective on things. > [@](#): > > If you just consider the States that have a $500,000 or less cap on total or non economic damages, nine out of 22 States with such caps had above median per capita medical malpractice cost in 2013. In 2014 eight of the 22 States with such caps had per capita malpractice costs that were above the median. That’s more of a difference than was shown with all States that had tort reform laws, but still more than one third of the States with these very strict caps had above average medical malpractice costs each year. > > Looking at medical malpractice trends in individual States doesn’t make the case for tort reform much clearer. States like Texas, Florida and Ohio saw dramatic drops in their medical malpractice costs after passing laws that capped non economic damages. But Massachusetts and Louisiana have similar caps yet continue to have rather high medical malpractice costs. [From the UPI:](http://www.upi.com/US-malpractice-lawsuits-less-than-1-of-healthcare-costs/33391367349367/) > [@](#): > > Some argue malpractice lawsuits are a big driver of U.S. healthcare costs, but researchers suggest these assertions are wrong. > > Dr. Marty Makary, an associate professor of surgery and health policy at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, and colleagues found in their review that U.S. malpractice payouts of more than $1 million added up to roughly $1.4 billion a year – making up far less than 1 percent of national medical expenditures in the United States. The cost of U.S. healthcare was $2.6 trillion in 2010. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/650 "2017-03-29T16:22:11Z")
Amusing Onion blurb… > **[GOP Makes Good On 2009 Promise To Block President’s Healthcare Bill](https://www.theonion.com/gop-makes-good-on-2009-promise-to-block-president-s-hea-1819579800)** > > WASHINGTON—Telling Americans this was the kind of leadership and accountability they could expect from the GOP, congressional Republicans held a press conference Monday to celebrate making good on their 2009 promise to block the president’s... “…Republicans held a press conference Monday to celebrate making good on their 2009 promise to block the president’s healthcare bill.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/651 "2017-03-29T16:26:50Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Amusing Onion blurb… > > [http://www.theonion.com/article/gop-makes-good-2009-promise-block-presidents-healt-55630](http://www.theonion.com/article/gop-makes-good-2009-promise-block-presidents-healt-55630) > > “…Republicans held a press conference Monday to celebrate making good on their 2009 promise to block the president’s healthcare bill.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/652 "2017-04-04T21:10:20Z")
Trumpcare, Trumpcare 2.0, Zombiecare, AHCA, whatever you want to call it is back. I had such a nice week last week, so I guess I’m refreshed and ready to roll. Call your representative. For it? Agin it? Call your representative. Make your voice heard. I was just on a call with Nancy Pelosi (not one on one or anything!) where she talked about how much the calls matter. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/653 "2017-04-04T23:41:13Z")
[Gallup](http://www.gallup.com/poll/207671/affordable-care-act-gains-majority-approval-first-time.aspx): Yuuuuge swing in ACA favorability, from 42% viewing it favorably, 53% unfavorably in November, to 55% favorable, 41% unfavorable now. 86% of Dems, 57% of independents, and 17%\* of Republicans view the ACA favorably. Only 30% of Americans (overwhelmingly GOP, of course) feel it should be repealed and replaced. - Up from 7% in November. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/654 "2017-04-05T00:43:43Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [Gallup](http://www.gallup.com/poll/207671/affordable-care-act-gains-majority-approval-first-time.aspx): Yuuuuge swing in ACA favorability, from 42% viewing it favorably, 53% unfavorably in November, to 55% favorable, 41% unfavorable now. > > 86% of Dems, 57% of independents, and 17%\* of Republicans view the ACA favorably. Only 30% of Americans (overwhelmingly GOP, of course) feel it should be repealed and replaced. > > - Up from 7% in November. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, Mr Art of the Deal tried to pull that stupid negotiation tactic where you walk out of the auto dealership thinking that the salesperson is going to chase after you with a better deal. But they stood out in the parking lot for week and now they are slinking back into the sales office - and I don’t think they are in a better position. They were hoping that there would be a huge public outcry when Ryan announced that “ObamaCare is the law of the land” but that didn’t happen … instead the nation joined together in a collective sigh of relief. I don’t think it’s going to go any better this time, unless maybe they manage to keep Trump out of the room ( which was probably rule one of the Trump Organization deal-making strategy). But I wish Republican lawmakers would just come out and say " Mr President, this is NOT EVEN CLOSE to what you promised and I’m not going to help you break one of your central campaign promises" ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/655 "2017-04-05T01:07:17Z")
This one looks even worse than the original since it has moved further to the Right. It basically is to the point of making health care affordable to the young and healthy at the expense of making it impossibly unaffordable to everyone else: [Republican Health Proposal Would Undermine Coverage for Pre-existing Conditions - The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/upshot/freedom-caucus-health-care-pre-existing-conditions.html) To paraphrase a joke I once heard about the physics job market, I think today’s Republican proposals are about average: that is worse than last week’s, but better than next week’s. ---
**Author:** ![SOJA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SOJA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SOJA)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/656 "2017-04-05T07:05:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [Gallup](http://www.gallup.com/poll/207671/affordable-care-act-gains-majority-approval-first-time.aspx): Yuuuuge swing in ACA favorability, from 42% viewing it favorably, 53% unfavorably in November, to 55% favorable, 41% unfavorable now. > > 86% of Dems, 57% of independents, and 17%\* of Republicans view the ACA favorably. Only 30% of Americans (overwhelmingly GOP, of course) feel it should be repealed and replaced. > > - Up from 7% in November. It was clear from the get-go that the Trump Administration tried to steamroll the bill through to pull a fast one on people. I thank their stupidity and the town-hall meetings where people, including lots of Republicans, informed themselves online and realized the ACA was saving their sick butt, and that Trump Care would have eventually led them astray. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/657 "2017-04-05T08:19:59Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Trumpcare, Trumpcare 2.0, Zombiecare, AHCA, whatever you want to call it is back. I had such a nice week last week, so I guess I’m refreshed and ready to roll. > > Call your representative. For it? Agin it? Call your representative. Make your voice heard. I was just on a call with Nancy Pelosi (not one on one or anything!) where she talked about how much the calls matter. Time to sharpen up the wooden stakes and break out the garlic again! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/658 "2017-04-27T19:54:46Z")
Now we’re on Trumpcare 3.0, The Rise of Vampire Trumpcare. _sigh_ Call your representative, for it or against it. Just call. Be active. Don’t be silent. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/659 "2017-04-28T15:58:33Z")
99 days in but the bill ain’t done. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/660 "2017-04-29T13:17:06Z")
I’m so tired of calling my reps. For long and boring reasons, I’m registered in Florida, so I have to call Marco Rubio (among others). I have now started posting to Marco Rubio’s Facebook page any time he posts about how awful the ACA is, or how they need to get government out of healthcare. The lastest? "Wow, if government-funded healthcare is so bad, when will you come out against the [Attending Physician of the United States Congress](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=20169599)? Where, for $600 a year, Congress members can access: > [@](#): > > …physicals and routine examinations, on-site X-rays and lab work, physical therapy and referrals to medical specialists from military hospitals and private medical practices. When specialists are needed, they are brought to the Capitol, often at no charge to members of Congress. All of it government-funded and carried out by government employees. But for us plebeians, GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE BAD. :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625.md?page=34)