# Trumpcare **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 7, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625 "2017-03-07T15:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/781 "2017-06-27T20:16:27Z")
The tea partiers will not agree to small changes, they will say its just keeping Obamacare forever. I don’t see what the Reps can do that a) can pass and b) won’t be a political disaster for them. They promised what couldn’t be delivered for like 7 years and now they have the numbers theoretically to actually do it, but they just can’t. As Trump said, nobody knew this could be so complicated, (except for everyone that already knew that). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/782 "2017-06-27T20:19:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > 1. There is no moral argument for making young workers pay more so that older workers can pay less. We’re not talking infirm retirees here, we’re talking older workers who are making a lot more than younger workers on average. There’s also the policy problem with this idea: if younger people are forced to subsidize older workers, they won’t by insurance, which is what is happening now. Lure young people back into the pool by having them pay premiums that are closer to the actual risk they represent. As CBO estimated for the House-passed American Health Care Act: under current law, a 64 year old making $26,500 a year would pay $1,700 for a health plan. Under the AHCA, the same plan for the same person would cost $14,600. Meanwhile, a 21 year old making $68,200 under current law would pay $5,100 for the same health care plan. Under AHCA, he would pay $1,450. If you think that nobody can question the morality of this policy change, I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/783 "2017-06-27T20:19:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s time to give up on repealing it, which they aren’t really doing anyway, and get down to fixing it and molding it more into the Republican image. This would include: If the Republican party considered these points, they could likely do this weird thing where they actually invited Democrats into the room and find a good deal of support there. Then, they could maybe all have an honest discussion around what’s the best way to move forward. Of course, this not being an Aaron Sorkin show, that’s not what’s gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/784 "2017-06-27T20:21:48Z")
The whole point is to do something _not_ involving the Democrats, and benefiting their patrons. That’s the result of all these years of demonization and oppositionism. The fact that they cannot come up with anything themselves is something that should have been obvious even to their supporters for just as many years - right, **adaher**? > [@Airbeck](#): > > I don’t see what the Reps can do that a) can pass and b) won’t be a political disaster for them. They can just blame the DemoncRats and the RINO’s. Which is already happening. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/785 "2017-06-27T20:27:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > As CBO estimated for the House-passed American Health Care Act: under current law, a 64 year old making $26,500 a year would pay $1,700 for a health plan. Under the AHCA, the same plan for the same person would cost $14,600. > > Meanwhile, a 21 year old making $68,200 under current law would pay $5,100 for the same health care plan. Under AHCA, he would pay $1,450. > > If you think that nobody can question the morality of this policy change, I disagree. You probably shouldn’t change it THAT much, but I’m not sure you can call it moral to force young workers just starting out to pay 3 times more. And morality aside, you can’t make them pay 3 times more. That part of ACA has failed and there are only two ways forward: entice young people back into the market, or force them into the market with more draconian penalties. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/786 "2017-06-27T20:31:56Z")
You’re leaving single-payer out of the list. Wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/787 "2017-06-27T20:40:34Z")
These young people? Are we going to cut them a break on their student loan load so they can buy health insurance? You know, those kids who bought our bullshit about a college education being a ticket to the upper-middle class and now have to choose between intern and bicycle messenger. No, they’ll just take their chances, won’t they? Because that’s what we would have done, or actually did. And the people who aren’t very smart? Not smart enough to see the advantages of health insurance, no matter how patiently we explain it? They get sick, fuck 'em? Is being dumb a crime, or just a sin? If they are our people, we should take care of them. And if they are not our people, who’s people are they? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/788 "2017-06-28T01:08:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You probably shouldn’t change it THAT much, but I’m not sure you can call it moral to force young workers just starting out to pay 3 times more. And morality aside, you can’t make them pay 3 times more. That part of ACA has failed and there are only two ways forward: entice young people back into the market, or force them into the market with more draconian penalties. I’m still not sure how you get from “old poor people should pay ten times more for health care (that they need more) than wealthy 21 year olds” to “morality directs that this is the only correct view.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/789 "2017-06-28T01:59:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > 1. There is no moral argument for making young workers pay more so that older workers can pay less. We’re not talking infirm retirees here, we’re talking older workers who are making a lot more than younger workers on average. There’s also the policy problem with this idea: if younger people are forced to subsidize older workers, they won’t by insurance, which is what is happening now. Lure young people back into the pool by having them pay premiums that are closer to the actual risk they represent. Hmm…why do you buy life insurance? It’s against the possibility of your dying before your time, or without ensuring that your family is provided for. This isn’t a difficult concept. Barring violent death, whatever your age, you are highly likely to spend time in the hospital. What’s so immoral about paying for that possibility just as you would life insurance? (Except that with health insurance, you get benefits far earlier than your termination or hospitalization…preventive care and other health maintenance.) Unfortunately, the entire thing ignores the elephant in the room, which is Big Pharma. (Other industries secondarily, but it’s mainly them.) Cost control is the solution, but there’s no way Republicans would ever go for that. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/790 "2017-06-28T08:35:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s time to give up on repealing it, which they aren’t really doing anyway, and get down to fixing it and molding it more into the Republican image. This would include: > > 1. REpeal of the individual mandate and replacing it with enrollment periods and penalties if you buy insurance after you get sick. No penalties would be levied if you bought insurance while still healthy. > > 2. Repeal of the mininum standards. The government does not need everyone to have comprehensive care. The government does need to make sure people are not at risk of medical bankruptcy. Catastrophic plans insure that sufficiently. Let people go back to buying minimalist plans if they want it. Okay. Now that we’re here, how do we ensure that people who need healthcare the most - people with expensive, chronic, life-threatening conditions like cancer patients, for example - can get health care? The whole point of the individual mandate is to ensure that everyone pitches in, so that those who need more can get more without being gouged to hell and back. You know, those _incredibly_ popular parts of the law, the group rating and the inability to deny people based on pre-existing conditions? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/791 "2017-06-28T12:25:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If they are our people, we should take care of them. And if they are not our people, who’s people are they? The modern conservative view does not seem to recognize the word “our”. There is no community, no sense of shared obligations that go along with shared rights; just a jungle filled with individuals. That’s how you can justify opposing health care as being a community right and responsibility. That’s how you avoid understanding what insurance even _is_. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/792 "2017-06-28T12:58:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The modern conservative view does not seem to recognize the word “our”. There is no community, no sense of shared obligations that go along with shared rights; just a jungle filled with individuals. That’s how you can justify opposing health care as being a community right and responsibility. That’s how you avoid understanding what insurance even _is_. There’s a “we,” but it only applies to rich people. And there aren’t any other \*\*\*people \*\*\*at all. Not that “we” need to bother with. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/793 "2017-06-28T13:45:38Z")
So how did Fox cover the McConnell anti-health bill? [They aren’t.](https://www.yahoo.com/tv/fox-news-health-care-tucker-hannity-trump-154659931.html) > [@](#): > > With Fox News, you can be sure that if they’re ignoring a big story, it’s for one reason — they haven’t figured out their talking-point counterarguments to slam the Democrats, Obama, and Hillary Clinton yet. (Think I’m kidding about Hillary? Hannity’s second story was about how former Obama Attorney General Loretta Lynch ought to be “probed” for her failure to investigate Clinton’s blessed email server.) It’s disgraceful that Fox isn’t informing its viewers about the content and consequences of the health care bill. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/794 "2017-06-28T17:12:12Z")
Best T-shirt: “Trumpcare - It’s Like Trump University But You Die” ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/795 "2017-06-28T17:50:21Z")
> [@quimper](#): > > The GOP covertly dropped the Trumpcare bill yesterday night. Besides devoting 7 pages to [denying Medicare coverage to lottery winners](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/03/one-tenth-gop-health-care-bill-deals-lottery-winners) it also dumps the individual and employer mandates, repeals the Medicaid expansion and also achieves the GOP’s dream of block granting Medicaid to the states. > > Obamacare rested on three legs: insurers are prevented from denying coverage or raising premiums based on preexisting conditions, individuals are required to buy insurance, and government subsidies make that insurance affordable. Knocking out two of those legs without a viable replacement spells disaster. The trouble is the premiums and decidable for the middle class are way too high. Corporations didn’t like Obama care. It was essentially an act where everybody else paid for the poor, but it was a forced act done without any political cooperation from the other side. Fix that first. Come up with a plan the middle class can afford, then come up with a plan for the poor, of frequently ill where the states can set their own insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/796 "2017-06-28T17:59:44Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The trouble is the premiums and decidable for the middle class are way too high. Corporations didn’t like Obama care. It was essentially an act where everybody else paid for the poor, but it was a forced act done without any political cooperation from the other side. > > Fix that first. Come up with a plan the middle class can afford, then come up with a plan for the poor, of frequently ill where the states can set their own insurance. Yet somehow Obamacare has approval ratings half again those of your President. A majority approve of it, unlike him. How did that work out (aside from his being deeply unpopular)? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/797 "2017-06-28T18:53:04Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The trouble is the premiums and decidable for the middle class are way too high. Corporations didn’t like Obama care. It was essentially an act where everybody else paid for the poor, but it was a forced act done without any political cooperation from the other side. Just out of curiosity, have you checked out what corporations think about the current republican health care plan? There’s a _lot_ more wrong with this post, but this just sprung out at me as trivially hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/798 "2017-06-28T22:10:16Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Best T-shirt: “Trumpcare - It’s Like Trump University But You Die” I got me [this one.](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07232XFBP) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/799 "2017-06-28T22:23:54Z")
“You called Terry an asshole. Now you are dead from dissin’ Terry.” ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625/800 "2017-06-28T22:32:32Z")
> [@quimper](#): > > The GOP covertly dropped the Trumpcare bill yesterday night. Besides devoting 7 pages to [denying Medicare coverage to lottery winners](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/03/one-tenth-gop-health-care-bill-deals-lottery-winners) it also dumps the individual and employer mandates, repeals the Medicaid expansion and also achieves the GOP’s dream of block granting Medicaid to the states. > > Obamacare rested on three legs: insurers are prevented from denying coverage or raising premiums based on preexisting conditions, individuals are required to buy insurance, and government subsidies make that insurance affordable. Knocking out two of those legs without a viable replacement spells disaster. Obamacare was a disaster from day one. It needs to be repealed in its entirety and the government needs to keep its paws off of insurance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpcare/781625.md?page=41)