# Trumpism: the new Punk Rock **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 2, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpism-the-new-punk-rock/781228 "2017-03-02T19:40:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpism-the-new-punk-rock/781228/21 "2017-03-03T03:34:15Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > It’s the kind of thing someone who knows nothing about punk rock outside of a few breathless newspaper articles from the late 70s would say. I was a pretty serious punk rock. Actually, the correct term would be American Hardcore from 1980-85. It’s a really fucking stupid analogy ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpism-the-new-punk-rock/781228/22 "2017-03-03T04:24:28Z")
I’m with **Snoe**. There are certain similarities. Punk’s beginnings were heavily assisted by people such as Malcolm McLaren, an entrepreneurial manipulator with a gift for recognising styles that were saleable and would make him money, even if (ironically) they were purportedly styles that rejected material values. Both punk and Trump-ism have an element of (as the OP says) rejecting the establishment. Both have an element of insincerity. Trump and McLaren both have a gift for knowing how to stage outrageous, nominally ideological happenings that will get free publicity and attract those drawn to the ideology, even if they don’t themselves have much if any sincere belief in that ideology. Punk has gone on to have a life of its own, furthered no doubt by those that believe in it as an ethos, regardless of the departure of the moneymen long ago. Trumpism is likely to do something similar since his supporters will likely live on as a group even after Trump himself has taken his money and run. Trump will never dissemble and snarl “Ever feel like you’ve been _cheated_” because that’s not his style. But I think a more self-analytical version of him would know that’s what he doing to his supporters. (and yes, I know John Lydon was referring to his backers not himself, but the point is still the same). ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpism-the-new-punk-rock/781228/23 "2017-03-03T04:30:27Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Alexander Hamilton! > > Did I win? Was I right? Wrong again! [You’ve never heard of the Subaru Impreza?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLhfxI8T2cU). Kids today. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpism-the-new-punk-rock/781228/24 "2017-03-03T07:08:43Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Both punk and Trump-ism have an element of (as the OP says) rejecting the establishment. Both have an element of insincerity. Trump and McLaren . . . Trump’s “rejecting the establishment” has always been pure bullshit–an act to draw in gullible fools. Punk was almost entirely about rejecting bullshit. What a dumbass comparison. (McLaren was just one individual who hardly represented the overall punk phenomenon.) When punk hit the scene, Trump was running around New York discos. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpism-the-new-punk-rock/781228/25 "2017-03-03T07:53:08Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I was a pretty serious punk rock. Actually, the correct term would be American Hardcore from 1980-85. > > It’s a really fucking stupid analogy Minor Threat\>\>Germs ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpism-the-new-punk-rock/781228/26 "2017-03-03T11:31:47Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > who is flipper? The SF punk band. As for the OP, there are many examples of barbaric yawps of rage against the system. That Trump’s comes from the right and punches down, and Punk’s is anarchic and punches up will keep them forever separate. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpism-the-new-punk-rock/781228/27 "2017-03-04T04:42:50Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > As for the OP, there are many examples of barbaric yawps of rage against the system. That Trump’s comes from the right and punches down, and Punk’s is anarchic and punches up will keep them forever separate. If you asked Trump supporters many would say they are down and punching up. They see themselves as being “left out” and rejecting the alleged DC elite. You may say “that’s not true” but that isn’t the point. Similarly, many of those in the earliest punk bands were lower middle class at worst. > [@guizot](#): > > Trump’s “rejecting the establishment” has always been pure bullshit–an act to draw in gullible fools. Punk was almost entirely about rejecting bullshit. What a dumbass comparison. > > (McLaren was just one individual who hardly represented the overall punk phenomenon.) You’re really not grokking the whole “ever feel like you’ve been _cheated_?” thing. The punk look was developed by McLaren’s SEX store. They didn’t do it for love and cuddles. They did it to sell clothes. You don’t think that the Sex Pistols paid for that barge on the Thames do you? Yes McLaren was only one guy. There were lots more moneymen than just McLaren. And yes, as I said, the style or sub-culture has continued beyond those who made it. As will Trumpism, quite likely. Punk has never been about rejecting bullshit really. That’s just a great catchphrase. Punk is as bullshit as anything else. Those within a particular sub-culture always seem themselves as rejecting everyone else’s bullshit. They don’t see the bullshit in themselves. Look at punk style with a cold hard eye. Totally impractical, and designed to be visually impressive. Or as many non-punks would call it, “bullshit”, and turned up to 11 no less. Think about how Trump’s supporters would react to the OP’s simile. I think you find they would tell you it’s a stupid analogy for precisely the same reasons as you two, but the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpism-the-new-punk-rock/781228/28 "2017-03-04T11:59:30Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > If you asked Trump supporters many would say they are down and punching up. They see themselves as being “left out” and rejecting the alleged DC elite. You may say “that’s not true” but that isn’t the point. Similarly, many of those in the earliest punk bands were lower middle class at worst. > > \ > > Think about how Trump’s supporters would react to the OP’s simile. I think you find they would tell you it’s a stupid analogy for precisely the same reasons as you two, but the other way around. Fair points. No different than alt-righters looking to Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumpism-the-new-punk-rock/781228.md?page=1)