# Trump's about to go into a foreign policy death spiral. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 13, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905 "2019-05-13T16:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/21 "2019-05-13T18:28:54Z")
Trump understands that foreign crises or even war are the way to divert from domestic problems, so will keep war-monger Bolton around so he can egg Trump on. Other than Bolton, who are Trump’s top foreign policy advisors? Kushner, Hannity and Putin? Any others? Stephen Miller?? Does Trump still look to Steve Bannon for guidance? Kushner is way past his Peter Principle ceiling and, at best, can be trusted to relay the wishes of two MidEast tyrants: Netanyahu and MBS al-Saud. Hannity will say whatever will leave him in Trump’s good graces. This leaves Putin as the key foreign policy adviser. I expect Trump to pretty much do Putin’s bidding. Putin will deploy his asset carefully: he doesn’t want the asset to become ineffective from excessive ridicule. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/22 "2019-05-13T18:39:09Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Trump understands that foreign crises or even war are the way to divert from domestic problems, so will keep war-monger Bolton around so he can egg Trump on. Other than Bolton, who are Trump’s top foreign policy advisors? FOX & [del]Fiends[/del] Friends. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/23 "2019-05-13T18:48:32Z")
Last I checked, the DOW was down almost 700 points today as a result of the trade war with China. What is Trump willing to do to distract the nation if the markets/economy keep going backwards? War with Iran seems pretty high up the list- the GOP ignorami will be easily led, as usual, into accepting the necessity of a million + casualties, all to protect the fragile ego of the Orange Ignoramus. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/24 "2019-05-13T20:01:39Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Last I checked, the DOW was down almost 700 points today as a result of the trade war with China. It had a little rebound an only finished 600 down and finished at 25,343. We just hit that number on January 12 so we’ve only regressed a bit. Oh wait, January 12, 2018. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/25 "2019-05-13T21:49:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The Iranians also get to have some input on whether we have a war or not. About as much input as Saddam had on whether there would be Gulf War II. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/26 "2019-05-13T22:55:02Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > As I have said before, we have no foreign policy. Yes, but that has been the case, since WWII if not WWI. US foreign policy is simply the extension of US domestic interests. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/27 "2019-05-13T23:48:30Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Well, Iran refused to unconditionally cease to exist, so our strike against them during Mueller’s testimony in front of Congress was entirely their fault. I have enough faith in my leaders to believe that they won’t take drastic measures unless absolutely necessary. “FREEZE! Hands in the air! Get down on the ground, NOW! Don’t move a muscle! Stop resisting! _They’re going for my gun!_” - Officer J.R. Bolton, D.C.'s finest ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/28 "2019-05-14T12:59:39Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Of course there are. One hopes that Trump isn’t that stupid. I like an optimist. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/29 "2019-05-14T17:31:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Of course, the vast majority of Trump supporters haven’t and don’t intend to volunteer for the military, so many of them won’t have any qualms about this. 😕 I infer from the fact that 61% of active military personnel voted for Trump that the “vast majority” of voters in the military are (or were in 2016) Trump supporters, ergo Trump supporters do volunteer for military service. Not sure where you are getting your stats… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/30 "2019-05-14T17:36:28Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > 😕 I infer from the fact that 61% of active military personnel voted for Trump that the “vast majority” of voters in the military are (or were in 2016) Trump supporters, ergo Trump supporters do volunteer for military service. Not sure where you are getting your stats… Whether true or not, this doesn’t conflict with anything I wrote. You might have to read more carefully. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/31 "2019-05-14T18:42:48Z")
I suppose he’s making the point that only a relatively small % of our population serve in the military. but the same sort of accusation could be made against, for example, Democrats: "Of course, the vast majority of [Obama] supporters haven’t and don’t intend to volunteer for the military, so many of them won’t have any qualms about " fighting in Libya, or Somalia, or Syria, Yemen, or Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Pakistan. Looked at in that light, it (iiandyiii’s lame chickenhawk-ish argument) loses most of its relevance. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/32 "2019-05-14T18:46:24Z")
I understand that many Americans really don’t have qualms about sending others to die in wars, even wars with little or no purpose, but a pet peeve of mine is young-ish, hale-bodied Americans advocating, celebrating, and/or justifying wars in which they have no intention to involve themselves and put themselves at risk. It’s quite reasonable to criticize such cowardice, common as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/33 "2019-05-14T19:20:35Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > It’s not that he won’t sanction - he already has. It’s that they won’t cave and will probably counter. Wait. Counter? What? Are they _allowed_ to do that? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/34 "2019-05-14T19:20:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I understand that many Americans really don’t have qualms about sending others to die in wars, even wars with little or no purpose, but a pet peeve of mine is young-ish, hale-bodied Americans advocating, celebrating, and/or justifying wars in which they have no intention to involve themselves and put themselves at risk. It’s quite reasonable to criticize such cowardice, common as it is. Provoking or even entertaining war with Iran absent some very significant casus bellie would be incredibly foolish and terrible. That being said, nevermore has your employ of the word “reasonable” been more on display as wholly without meaning. Whether or not a country and its populace is willing to go to war should be based on the underlying risks, rewards, rationales, and causes. Almost no where in the calculus is whether any individual person has enlisted or is planning to enlist. Expressing an opinion on whether any particular military action is justifiable doesn’t suddenly transform from bravery to cowardice hinging on the speaker’s military service. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/35 "2019-05-14T19:30:26Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > One hopes that Trump isn’t that stupid. Oh, he’s definitely that stupid. Hope instead that a squirrel distracts him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/36 "2019-05-14T19:31:19Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Provoking or even entertaining war with Iran absent some very significant casus bellie would be incredibly foolish and terrible. > > That being said, nevermore has your employ of the word “reasonable” been more on display as wholly without meaning. Whether or not a country and its populace is willing to go to war should be based on the underlying risks, rewards, rationales, and causes. Almost no where in the calculus is whether any individual person has enlisted or is planning to enlist. Expressing an opinion on whether any particular military action is justifiable doesn’t suddenly transform from bravery to cowardice hinging on the speaker’s military service. Sure it’s reasonable. If you (the general “you”) think young people should be put at risk of death for some purpose, but not yourself, when you’re perfectly able to do so, then you’re being cowardly. It’s as simple of that. Sure, it’s quite common, but it’s still cowardly. You are free to have a different definition of cowardice, if you like. And it doesn’t conflict with the notion (which I agree with) that “Whether or not a country and its populace is willing to go to war should be based on the underlying risks, rewards, rationales, and causes.” Yes, that is the basis on which we should decide to go to war. _And if you’re able but not willing to join the war that you are supporting on that basis, then you are a gutless coward_, barring a few unusual circumstances (i.e. you’re the sole caregiver for your children, you’re irreplaceable in some sort of critical public service work [and the bar for this would be very high], etc.). Until I turn 50 or so, or have some medical condition that would render me incapable of serving, or find myself as the sole caregiver for children, I will not support or advocate for any military action that puts young Americans at risk unless I plan to return to service and join them. If we were severely attacked, unprovoked, by one of our adversaries, I would attempt to rejoin the Navy, because I would probably feel that war was appropriate in those circumstances. To do otherwise would be cowardice, in my view. My view of cowardice and duty may not be terribly common, and of course you are free to disagree with them, but that you disagree doesn’t make them unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/37 "2019-05-14T19:32:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The Iranians also get to have some input on whether we have a war or not. Well, ya know, that’s the funny thing about a war; you really only need one side to start it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/38 "2019-05-14T19:43:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … Until I turn 50 or so, or have some medical condition that would render me incapable of serving, or find myself as the sole caregiver for children, I will not support or advocate for any military action that puts young Americans at risk unless I plan to return to service and join them. If we were severely attacked, unprovoked, by one of our adversaries, I would attempt to rejoin the Navy, because I would probably feel that war was appropriate in those circumstances. To do otherwise would be cowardice, in my view. … So did you oppose the airborne assault on Osama bin Laden’s compound in Pakistan? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/39 "2019-05-14T20:07:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So did you oppose the airborne assault on Osama bin Laden’s compound in Pakistan? I was neither consulted nor informed beforehand. Had I been, I would have gladly volunteered, not that the Navy could have used any of my skills in that instance. What about you? Do you plan to volunteer to serve if Trump gets us into war with Venezuela or Iran? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/40 "2019-05-14T20:10:29Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Remember how Trump promised to repeal and replace Obamacare? And make it cheaper? Look how successful he was with that! I expect similar results with his foreign policy. The health care thing is just one example, by the way. Gaze upon his marvelous wall for another. And his military parade! It’s going to be Da Best Military Parade evah! Yeah, right. As for Venezuela, THAT seems to be what he wants to do to the U.S., more so than turning us into North Korea v. 2.0. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905.md?page=3)