# Trump's about to go into a foreign policy death spiral. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 13, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905 "2019-05-13T16:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/41 "2019-05-14T20:11:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There are worse things than sanctions that can happen to Iran. Is Trump planning on becoming President there? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/42 "2019-05-14T20:25:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sure it’s reasonable. If you (the general “you”) think young people should be put at risk of death for some purpose, but not yourself, when you’re perfectly able to do so, then you’re being cowardly. I have to agree with \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*on this one. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/43 "2019-05-14T20:28:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I have to agree with \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*on this one. So old people would be exempt from this “cowardice” criticism, right? Because they don’t meet the “when you’re perfectly able to do so” criteria? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/44 "2019-05-14T20:33:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So old people would be exempt from this “cowardice” criticism, right? Because they don’t meet the “when you’re perfectly able to do so” criteria? Yes, I think he was pretty clear about this: > [@](#): > > Until I turn 50 or so, or have some medical condition that would render me incapable of serving, or find myself as the sole caregiver for children, I will not support or advocate for any military action that puts young Americans at risk unless I plan to return to service and join them. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/45 "2019-05-14T20:33:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So old people would be exempt from this “cowardice” criticism, right? Because they don’t meet the “when you’re perfectly able to do so” criteria? Sure. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/46 "2019-05-14T20:44:53Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Yes, I think he was pretty clear about this: > [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure. And sick or disabled people too, right? What about people who can’t pass the military’s physical fitness requirements in general? Maybe they’re overweight, or out of shape? Is what I’m getting at is that if this is just a criticism of physically- and mentally-fit young adults, and everyone else is exempt from it, that seems … strange. Also, not very effective strategy for a general audience, since it’s apparently not a criticism valid for most people. For example, I’ve seen data that “[71 percent of young Americans between 17 and 24 are ineligible to serve in the United States military](https://www.heritage.org/defense/report/the-looming-national-security-crisis-young-americans-unable-serve-the-military)”. None of that 71% would be cowards for advocating we go to war with Iran, right? But any one of the 29% that ARE fit for service who advocate for it (and aren’t enlisted) ARE cowards? That’s what you’re suggesting? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/47 "2019-05-14T20:49:30Z")
LOL. That’s a lot of effort to go to to avoid answering a question about whether one would volunteer to serve in a potential upcoming war they support. Though I suspect a refusal to answer is kind of an answer in itself. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/48 "2019-05-14T21:07:33Z")
According to Rubio, Republican, Iran doesn’t just have some input- it’s all on them! > **[Sen. Marco Rubio says war with Iran is in the hands of Ayatollah Khamenei:...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/14/marco-rubio-says-war-with-iran-is-up-to-ayatollah-khamenei-its-all-on-them.html)** > > Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio said on Tuesday that whether the U.S. goes to war with Iran is ultimately in the hands of that country's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/49 "2019-05-14T21:57:33Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Provoking or even entertaining war with Iran absent some very significant casus bellie would be incredibly foolish and terrible. Which is exactly why it might happen. [Here’s](https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/141604554855825408) a 2011 tweet from Donald Trump: > [@Donald Trump](#): > > In order to get elected, @BarackObama will start a war with Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/50 "2019-05-14T23:42:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > None of that 71% would be cowards for advocating we go to war with Iran, right? But any one of the 29% that ARE fit for service who advocate for it (and aren’t enlisted) ARE cowards? That’s what you’re suggesting? I’M suggesting that if you want the US to go to war, then you should fight in it if you are able. You can provide any statistics you want, if that makes you feel better. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/51 "2019-05-15T00:00:57Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’M suggesting that if you want the US to go to war, then you should fight in it if you are able. > > You can provide any statistics you want, if that makes you feel better. _shrug_ I don’t believe for a second that you’re concerned about my feelings. Much to the lament of the SJW’s, there aren’t yet any gender / racial / occupational requirements to holding /sharing an opinion or advocating a particular position. I don’t have to be in the military to have an opinion on military action. I don’t have to be a woman to advocate for a particular position on abortion, and I don’t have to be black to share my thoughts on affirmative action. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/52 "2019-05-15T00:15:02Z")
So I guess it’s the fault of these fantasy SJW creatures that you didn’t answer my question about whether you plan to volunteer for military service if the Trump administration has us go to war with Iran or Venezuela? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/53 "2019-05-15T00:23:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t have to be in the military to have an opinion on military action. Of course you don’t. Just don’t expect your opinion to mean much. You know the saying ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/54 "2019-05-15T00:25:08Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’M suggesting that if you want the US to go to war, then you should fight in it if you are able. > > You can provide any statistics you want, if that makes you feel better. Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/K3b6SGoN6dA/hqdefault.jpg "BLACK SABBATH - "War Pigs" (Live Video)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3b6SGoN6dA) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/55 "2019-05-15T00:44:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … > Much to the lament of the SJW’s, … I don’t know you. Which is why I ask: Are you a grown man? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/56 "2019-05-15T01:58:35Z")
There are too many reasons not to enlist to make willingness to do so the litmus test in judging causes belli (sp?). War is a national, not individual, endeavor. The interests of the nation should be consulted. Not that I wasn’t thinking the exact same thing today. Whose kids fight and die over Iran, and for what? Then there is the Hooverville situation at the border. Have we declared war on Latin America? If not, wtf? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/57 "2019-05-15T03:35:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So I guess it’s the fault of these fantasy SJW creatures that you didn’t answer my question about whether you plan to volunteer for military service if the Trump administration has us go to war with Iran or Venezuela? I didn’t answer your question because I didn’t think it was relevant. _You_ are the one that has adopted a moral code of “I will not support or advocate for any military action that puts young Americans at risk unless I plan to return to service and join them.” That’s not something you and I share. But, since you’re apparently interested: I feel no compunction about supporting military actions that I will not be fighting in. The Trump administration could have us go to war with either or both of them and I would still have no intention of volunteering for military service. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/58 "2019-05-15T03:36:56Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I don’t know you. Which is why I ask: Are you a grown man? Yes. Is English your first language? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/59 "2019-05-15T04:48:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > _shrug_ I don’t believe for a second that you’re concerned about my feelings. > > Much to the lament of the SJW’s, there aren’t yet any gender / racial / occupational requirements to holding /sharing an opinion or advocating a particular position. I don’t have to be in the military to have an opinion on military action. I don’t have to be a woman to advocate for a particular position on abortion, and I don’t have to be black to share my thoughts on affirmative action. Are you actually telling _military veterans_ that you are perfectly within your rights to support sending them to their potential deaths, even though you are (apparently) unwilling to put your life in the line and nyah nyah there is nothing they can do about it? You are within your rights, advocate away for anything you like, but damn. That’s some brave, classy shit right there. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905/60 "2019-05-15T04:48:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So I guess it’s the fault of these fantasy SJW creatures that you didn’t answer my question about whether you plan to volunteer for military service if the Trump administration has us go to war with Iran or Venezuela? **HurricaneDitka** would only go to war if libruls were coming for his gunz. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-about-to-go-into-a-foreign-policy-death-spiral/833905.md?page=4)