# Trump's ban on transgender individuals in the military **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159 "2017-07-26T14:09:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/241 "2017-07-27T09:07:44Z")
This is just stupid and hateful. The Pentagon was already doing a lengthy review on what it would take to integrate transgendered into the military. Let them work their own shit out. The military will always do what’s best for the military. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/242 "2017-07-27T09:42:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The frequently referenced RAND study looked at 18 different countries but focused on 4: Not sure that list is complete - South Africa allows trans people in the military. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/243 "2017-07-27T09:53:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not sure that list is complete - South Africa allows trans people in the military. And Spain (which is listed) allowed them for years before the rule got written down; I suspect there will be other countries with similar situations. There had been a few MtF serving when an FtM case forced a review of the _medical_ rules (under the old rules, the FtM candidate could not be allowed to serve because “lack of a penis” was considered invalidating for a male). Some legal systems allow only those things which are expressly allowed; some ban only those which are expressly banned. When the two mindsets met, misunderstandings is the least that can happen. When someone from one mindset tries to analyze stuff from the other… oy vey. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/244 "2017-07-27T10:36:00Z")
It’s a misstep by Trump. What he should have done is to issue a statement saying that transgenders would be welcome to serve their country but before they enlist their gender must be fixed one way or the other. Military spending would not cover operations to change gender. That hardly seems an oppressive thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/245 "2017-07-27T11:03:41Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > _To paraphrase from another Pit thread:_ > > “I’m not a sociopath/psychopath, I just support one and voted for one.” > > Trump is a psychopath. He’s a psychopathic liar. He is a megalomaniac. He is fixated on only those things that, in his twisted mind, make him look good. Damn the Truth; full speed ahead. Ahead, though, lies the ruination of the country. > > And you idiots who voted for him…you also are shit. You voted for him knowing full well how atrocious he is. No need to jump to conclusions. They could be imbeciles. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/246 "2017-07-27T11:05:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How does this harm our national security? To add to what many others have said: - if you’re in the US military (or planning to enlist), you know now that you can be kicked out for any reason Trump thinks will help him appeal to his base - if you’re an ally of the US and Trump asks you to join a coalition, you’d have serious doubts about his motives for war ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/247 "2017-07-27T11:13:49Z")
First they came for the transgenders and I wasn’t one so I didn’t speak up… ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/248 "2017-07-27T11:15:59Z")
First they came for the transgenders but I wasn’t one so I did not speak up… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/249 "2017-07-27T11:16:24Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It’s a misstep by Trump. What he should have done is to issue a statement saying that transgenders would be welcome to serve their country but before they enlist their gender must be fixed one way or the other. Military spending would not cover operations to change gender. That hardly seems an oppressive thing to do. He needed to do nothing. There was no problem for him to solve. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/250 "2017-07-27T11:20:46Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > He needed to do nothing. Stopping breathing would be nice, though. > [@](#): > > There was no problem for him to solve. Except for that pesky continuing-to-breathe thing… ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/251 "2017-07-27T11:25:13Z")
Not sure if this observation belongs in this plurolog, but what about immigrants? Isn’t he opposed to letting them serve? Isn’t he encouraging the AG to deport them, even after service? Every day, I become more discouraged and upset by this impostor. He has none of the elements present for a Presidency – neither good judgement nor good advisors nor a coherent plan for progress. Congress and the cabinet should stop waiting for the other to act. Time for a one-way copter ride. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/252 "2017-07-27T11:59:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because we’re artificially limiting the pool from which we can draw qualified members of the military. I’m not old enough to remember when it was implemented, but wasn’t that also one of the reasons that people opposed Affirmative Action[sup]\*[/sup]? I haven’t read every post in this thread (yet) but I found it telling that despite Trump saying that he consulted with his generals, the Pentagon had no idea that he was going to make this ban. [sup]\*In no way am I suggesting that anyone on this board is/was against Affirmative Action, or that it had a negative effect on race relations. Or on society in general. But I’ve heard that type of sentiment expressed about AA.[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/253 "2017-07-27T12:19:51Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I haven’t read every post in this thread (yet) but I found it telling that despite Trump saying that he consulted with his generals, the Pentagon had no idea that he was going to make this ban. I think the simple answer is that he didn’t. Everybody was blindsided by this. Also, how did they become “his” generals as opposed to “our” generals? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/254 "2017-07-27T12:24:45Z")
Because he doesn’t know WTF a majestic plural is. If he did, he’d use it constantly. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/255 "2017-07-27T12:42:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Really? What is your definition of harms National Security? A Captain instead of a Major in a command position in one military unit across the entire DoD? It’s not my fault that many people use a definition of National Security that has no bearing on real life military effectiveness. In retrospect, I guess the question of “What do you mean by harming National Security?” would be a prudent question, but one that I surmise would be answered similarly to “Why does that matter? This ban is wrong, and for you to question it means you are a transgender hater, and probably homophobic too!” :rolleyes: All of these things have “bearing on real life military effectiveness”. It just might be relatively small effects. You’re not using the literal meanings of words, but rather some hazy and vague inferences that aren’t at all clear. When I say it harms national security, I mean that literally – there’s a negative effect on national security. It’s not a big effect, but there is an effect, and I believe it’s negative. There are probably only a few hundred, if that, full-blood Cherokee men and women in the military. Nonetheless, banning full-blood Cherokee would have a negative effect on national security – not just losing some potentially skilled men and women, but portraying the military publicly as a bigoted and discriminatory organization. That hurts recruiting and retention in the long term. This ban does the same. Others will reconsider whether they want to remain in, or join, an organization that makes personnel policy decisions based on bigotry alone. “Harm” is “negative effect”, even a small negative effect. This sort of thing will have a negative effect on our national security. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/256 "2017-07-27T12:50:11Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > He needed to do nothing. There was no problem for him to solve. Well, except for the problem of how to get people to stop talking about Russia for a minute… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/257 "2017-07-27T13:48:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “Harm” is “negative effect”, even a small negative effect. This sort of thing will have a negative effect on our national security. Yes. This is the crux of my argument, **manson**. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/258 "2017-07-27T13:49:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, but I just saw this. Yes, I disagree. In my opinion, National Security is affected when units that are critical to National Security are declared Non Mission Capable (NMC). If a nuclear missile squadron is declared NMC, then yes, our National Security is affected. If a bomber squadron is declared NMC, then yes, our National Security is affected. If a Civil Engineering squadron is declared NMC, then no, our National Security is not affected in any meaningful way, because our National Security does not depend on Civil Engineering squadrons, in normal times. I’m sure you can devise scenarios where our entire country will fall to the Chinese unless this one Red Horse Squadron can get electrical power operational, but that is far fetched (I can also only speak for the Air Force, not the other services) > > And to reiterate, since some people apparently don’t know how to read, I think the ban is stupid and bigoted. How does having just one nuclear missile squadron declared NMC affect our national security? What scenario are you thinking of that would cause the entire country to fall to the Chinese unless this one missile squadron is operational? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/259 "2017-07-27T14:04:39Z")
It’s interesting how conservatives have for years been complaining about politicizing the military. And what does their hero do six months in? Politicize the fucking military - like bigly. There was no need to do shit to the existing policies, especially not now that you have tens of thousands of troops in active combat in war zones all around the world. This guy’s a fucking disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/260 "2017-07-27T14:11:28Z")
Just a comment because I see it coming up a lot in this thread, from people who agree this policy was stupid and bigoted. Referring to people as ‘‘transgenders’’ is mildly derogatory. It’s generally considered more respectful to say a person is transgendered. It’s the difference between a noun and an adjective. If you don’t give a shit what people find offensive blah blah blah PC bullshit blah blah blah this comment is not directed at you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159.md?page=14)