# Trump's ban on transgender individuals in the military **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159 "2017-07-26T14:09:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/261 "2017-07-27T14:12:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. This is the crux of my argument, **manson**. For some unknown reason, the term “death by a thousand cuts” seems appropriate. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/262 "2017-07-27T14:16:38Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Well, except for the problem of how to get people to stop talking about Russia for a minute… That’s not a problem either. The investigations will continue regardless of who talks about them around the ol’ watercooler or on TV. Those who are concerned about Republican malfeasance, incompetence and authoritarianism will continue to be concerned about it, and those who were raised on a diet of paint chips and bigotry will continue to excuse or ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/263 "2017-07-27T14:29:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Trump just announced](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-announces-ban-transgender-people-serving-military) (on twitter, obviously) that transgender Americans can’t serve in the military any more. This includes folks like [Kristin Beck](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristin_Beck), who won a bronze star and a purple heart. > > This is infuriating to me, as a veteran and a patriot. This policies harms both transgender Americans and our national security, by removing many valiant patriots from the possibility of serving and defending our country. If Mattis doesn’t resign over this then his character is considerably less than I thought. Aren’t you the guy who couldn’t be arsed to vote? If more “patriots” like you could find the fire to just pull the lever and actually, yanno, participate in the democratic process, things like this might not happen. Yes, I am placing the blame partly on you. I hope you’re mad enough to fucking vote next time. Anyway, Trump’s pattern is getting ridiculous. First Muslims, now transgenders. This whole isolate-a-demographic way of thinking has got to go. I hope everyone recognizes this as the will of the evangelical portion of Trump’s base. I can’t believe this is my country ☹ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/264 "2017-07-27T14:35:22Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Aren’t you the guy who couldn’t be arsed to vote? If more “patriots” like you could find the fire to just pull the lever and actually, yanno, participate in the democratic process, things like this might not happen. Yes, I am placing the blame partly on you. I hope you’re mad enough to fucking vote next time. What the hell are you talking about? I’ve voted in every single election (except 1, I think, and it was an off-off year election, and I think it was because I was at sea in the Navy and missed the deadline for the absentee ballot) since I turned 18. I’ve never missed a Presidential or mid-term election. Cite or take it back. Put some goddamn effort into making sure an accusation is correct before making it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/265 "2017-07-27T14:36:20Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Aren’t you the guy who couldn’t be arsed to vote? If more “patriots” like you could find the fire to just pull the lever and actually, yanno, participate in the democratic process, things like this might not happen. Yes, I am placing the blame partly on you. I hope you’re mad enough to fucking vote next time. > > Anyway, Trump’s pattern is getting ridiculous. First Muslims, now transgenders. This whole isolate-a-demographic way of thinking has got to go. I hope everyone recognizes this as the will of the evangelical portion of Trump’s base. > > I can’t believe this is my country ☹ I think the person you are thinking of does have a name that starts with an “i”, but he not only capitalizes it, he follows it with completely different letters than iiandyiiii does. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/266 "2017-07-27T14:37:45Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I think the person you are thinking of does have a name that starts with an “i”, but he not only capitalizes it, he follows it with completely different letters than iiandyiiii does. Idle Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/267 "2017-07-27T14:40:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Idle Thoughts? No, I put some concentration into it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/268 "2017-07-27T14:47:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK, **manson** – this may be a definitions gap here. > > To my understanding, “harm” to national security arises when the combat effectiveness of any armed service unit is decreased. That means that if 1st Battalion, 102nd Infantry Regiment of the 10th Mountain Division loses MAJ Smith, a highly qualified battalion XO, and Smith is replaced with CPT(P) Jones, a promotable captain with no staff experience, then national security is harmed, even though the Islamic hordes still don’t sweep over the Canadian border and seize Vermont. In reading this thread up to this point I can say that my view on this move is the same as yours. That said, your point here, if expanded, really says that the military is degraded every day, when someone with skill and experience is killed, injured or retires. But at the same time, the military is improved every day, as well, as I’m sure that sometimes replacements for the killed, wounded or retired are better than the people they replace. So, the only argument I’m not buying fully is that this will necessarily make our military less effective. As I said, I agree with your position on this thus far in the thread. But even granting the existence of some small degree of degradation, is it not possible that the costs outweigh them. And by costs I mean the totality of cost of operation, cost of having servicemen out of operation while they transition, and the cost of integrating people who are going through the transition. As someone upthread pointed out, the military routinely rejects people who have skills that could benefit them due to medical conditions that would be a cost in time and money. Just to be clear, I think the military should be built in a way that makes it the most effective. Period. L, B, G T or straight should all take a backseat to that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/269 "2017-07-27T14:54:00Z")
Is that now your view on marriage too? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/270 "2017-07-27T14:55:06Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Anyway, Trump’s pattern is getting ridiculous. First Muslims, now transgenders. This whole isolate-a-demographic way of thinking has got to go. I hope everyone recognizes this as the will of the evangelical portion of Trump’s base. > > I can’t believe this is my country ☹ Paging Rev. [Niemöller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/271 "2017-07-27T14:57:40Z")
> [@Cheerful\_Pessimist](#): > > I apologize if this is hijack, but I feel the need to share… I work for a government agency in DC, not DoD, and was assigned to participate in a four day lockdown at the Pentagon this week (Tuesday thru Friday) to help form policy for transgender service members. Long story short, my time is valuable, and I didn’t feel my particular government programs would be affected by any TG policy(ies) implemented by DoD, so I pushed back, and managed to get out of the lockdown. Given the invitees to that lockdown, I now regret my efforts to weasel out of that meeting. I wish I had been there to see the reaction around the table as the “policy” tweets came down. I’ve been in contact with some of the attendees, and the reactions are reportedly priceless. Very high level DoD officials were taken off guard. > > As an aside, who in the ever loving fuck establishes policy via tweet? I’ve been in government policy for many years. Policy changes require vetting, planning, comms plans, buy in, etc. From my sources, none of that was done. From what I hear, it was all about a hold out on an amendment related to building that stupid wall. SERIOUSLY?!? He’s a fucking King now. He doesn’t need any review vetting, planning, coordination. He has set himself up as King, and he rules by decree via those fucking tweets. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/272 "2017-07-27T14:59:52Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Aren’t you the guy who couldn’t be arsed to vote? If more “patriots” like you could find the fire to just pull the lever and actually, yanno, participate in the democratic process, things like this might not happen. Yes, I am placing the blame partly on you. I hope you’re mad enough to fucking vote next time. > > Anyway, Trump’s pattern is getting ridiculous. First Muslims, now transgenders. This whole isolate-a-demographic way of thinking has got to go. I hope everyone recognizes this as the will of the evangelical portion of Trump’s base. > > I can’t believe this is my country ☹ As noted by others, you’re thinking of [Idle Thoughts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=809946&highlight=vote). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/273 "2017-07-27T15:00:20Z")
> [@purplehearingaid](#): > > How the hell is this " making America great again "??? You don’t seriously think he really gives a flying fuck about that, do you??? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/274 "2017-07-27T15:05:22Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > That’s not a problem either. The investigations will continue regardless of who talks about them around the ol’ watercooler or on TV. Those who are concerned about Republican malfeasance, incompetence and authoritarianism will continue to be concerned about it, and those who were raised on a diet of paint chips and bigotry will continue to excuse or ignore it. According to this morning’s info, the Drumpf MacFuckstick and his fucking Repugnants in Congress want to turn the investigation to HRC and emails - again. These bastards need to face treason charges. All of them. Every last one. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/275 "2017-07-27T15:13:20Z")
Trump is incredibly stupid and incompetent. He proves this on a near daily basis. Trump can be astoundingly petty or indifferent in his behavior to others. He has demonstrated this on numerous occasions. But this latest action is an example of Trumps cruelty. He is a cruel, cruel bastard. What a disgraceful slap in the face to the many brave, committed transgendered folks serving their country. From the Politico article that \*\*[Crybaby Boobie](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20372166&postcount=150)\*\*linked to, > [@](#): > > defense hawks wanted a ban on Pentagon-funded sex reassignment operations and > [@](#): > > Numerous House conservatives and defense hawks this week had threatened to derail their own legislation if it did not include a prohibition on Pentagon funding for gender reassignment surgeries, which they deem a waste of taxpayer money. Who the fuck are these “defense hawks”? Are these the “Generals” Trump claimed he’d been talking with? Just who are these dip-shits? It seems the bill to ban gender reassignment surgeries was proposed by Republican Rep. [Vicky Hartzler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicky_Hartzler), who’s on the Committee on Armed Services, but she ain’t no general. But she is super stoked about Trump upgrading her transgender surgery ban to a flat out transgender ban. > [@](#): > > She was "very pleased that he listened and he acted decisively and will help restore our military’s readiness.” ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/276 "2017-07-27T15:38:00Z")
> [@](#): > > From CNN’s Barbara Starr and Ryan Browne: > > In a memo to the military, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said there will be “no modifications” to military policy on transgender troops until the Secretary of Defense issues guidance. > > Gen. Joseph Dunford added, “We will continue to treat all of our personnel with respect.” > > Here’s the full memo: > > From: CJCS (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) > > To: Service Chiefs, Commanders and Senior Enlisted Leaders > > I know there are questions about yesterday’s announcement on the > transgender policy by the President. There will be no modifications to > the current policy until the President’s direction has been received by > the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation > guidelines. > > In the meantime, we will continue to treat all > of our personnel with respect. As importantly, given the current fight > and the challenges we face, we will all remain focused on accomplishing > our assigned missions. Take that, President Stupidhead. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/277 "2017-07-27T15:50:55Z")
> [@Crybaby\_Boobie](#): > > Take that, President Stupidhead. Maybe “his generals” can keep him distracted for a few days and he’ll forget/assume it’s been done and that will be the end of it. Though I suppose that would count as disobeying orders. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/278 "2017-07-27T15:58:53Z")
_flops around on floor, pounding with hands and feet_ I hate him sooooooo muuuuuuuuch! … Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/279 "2017-07-27T16:21:59Z")
Obviously nothing increases military effectiveness like a moronic, deluded, buffoon acting as CiC issuing sweeping, morale effecting policies changes with no explanation or clarity. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/280 "2017-07-27T16:26:46Z")
Not even fancy White House letterhead or anything, it was a friggin tweet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159.md?page=15)