# Trump's ban on transgender individuals in the military **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159 "2017-07-26T14:09:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/301 "2017-07-27T19:20:32Z")
> [@purplehearingaid](#): > > How the hell is this " making America great again "??? Come on, if you start with a pretty great nation, you can’t make it “Great Again” without turning it into a dystopian hellscape first. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/302 "2017-07-27T19:28:54Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I thought we had already agreed to not argue about what “meaningful” meant? Okay, fair enough. Just one last point: I’m right and you’re wrong. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/303 "2017-07-27T19:30:01Z")
It is good that Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joseph Dunford, Jr. has declared that there will be no changes to the policy until “the President’s direction has been received by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation guidance” In other words, he has made it clear that Trump’s idiotic tweets do not have any authority whatsoever. “Dunford himself was [not aware that Trump was going to announce](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/27/defense-department-to-trump-on-transgender-ban-not-so-fast.html) the ban, a U.S. official said.” So at this point, it is just Trump’s opinion. It bears no official weight at all. And he didn’t bother to tell anyone before he spewed it out into the twitterverse. I’d love to know who “HIS” Generals and others he spoke with. Likely this is just made up bullshit as well. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/304 "2017-07-27T19:44:04Z")
I guess he thought something was missing since he hadn’t had a public fight with the Sec of Defense yet, and decided to make Mattis look like an unprepared jackass while he was on vacation. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/305 "2017-07-27T19:44:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > okay, fair enough. > > Just one last point: I’m right and you’re wrong. > > 😉 lol 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/306 "2017-07-27T19:47:46Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I’m very sorry for your friend and all the other soldiers concerned. Keep up the good fight, Una. > > But what I’m asking myself the whole time: How would they apply this policy and identify the transgendered soldiers in a constitutional and legal way? We learned in this thread that estimations of their number wildly differ, so how would they be identified? Force everybody in the military to make an official declaration about their gender? Go after allegations and hearsay and force medical or psychological exams? Torturesome interrogation of suspects? And who would be the executive agency for this identification? I really can’t imagine. The same way they identfied gays and lesbians: by their statements, by snooping, or by others outing them against their will (which was often done back in the day). I don’t get the question here. Why does this person need to hide and lie about who they are? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/307 "2017-07-27T19:51:53Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I guess he thought something was missing since he hadn’t had a public fight with the Sec of Defense yet, and decided to make Mattis look like an unprepared jackass while he was on vacation. That’s great, since I believe that Mattis is one of those (along with Sessions) who can decide if the president is mentally unfit under Article 25, section 4. Keep it up Trump, and you’ll be out on “vacation” before Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/308 "2017-07-27T20:05:13Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > My apologies, I Was thinking of another guy, iiiandiii. If you see Idle Thoughts, remind him that he has a civic duty to vote. … I believe Idle Thoughts has had a change of heart: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818068](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818068) > [@I was wrong and you were right. \[Trump-related\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/1): > > In the last few days…Trump… > …Did the Muslim Ban thing. > …[Has hung up on the Australian Prime Minister.](http://nypost.com/2017/02/01/trump-blasted-australian-prime-minister-during-worst-call-by-far/) > …[Has gotten the Prime Minister of Canada to accept all refugees.](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/canadian-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-says-canada-welcomes-refugees/) > …[Has threatened Mexico with invasion](http://time.com/4657474/donald-trump-enrique-pena-nieto-mexico-bad-hombres/) > …and I don’t even want to think about what I read happened in Yemen. > [I’m sorry for this topic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=809946). I was wrong. I was wrong not to vote. I was wrong in thinking it doesn’t matter or that it’s pointless. I very humbly apologize. > I will register to vote and start voting and I will definitely be voting four years from now… that is, if we’re still all alive in four years. Or if we still have the right to vote. I wish I had done it before, in this election. I’m sorry I didn’t. > I was definitely in the wrong and wanted you all to know I admit it and feel bad and sorry over it. > > That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/309 "2017-07-27T20:10:21Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > The same way they identfied gays and lesbians: by their statements, by snooping, or by others outing them against their will (which was often done back in the day). I don’t get the question here. Why does this person need to hide and lie about who they are? The person SHOULDN’T have to lie about who they are, that’s for sure, but could feel to be forced to lie because they want to keep their job/rank/calling in the military, that’s why I asked. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/310 "2017-07-27T20:31:12Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do you want an in-depth review of our nuclear triad, and the purpose of it? Including what the loss of a high percentage of our nuclear missiles would result in? > > Or are you just asking to be difficult? I was asking in the same spirit as your question as to how losing a few thousand members of the military would impact national security. I don’t know much about the nuclear triad (though probably more than Trump), and certainly nothing classified, but I count 9 [current missle squadrons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Air_Force_missile_squadrons). The loss of one accounts for approximately 11% of our nuclear missiles that can be deployed that way. So, does the loss of 11% of our nuclear missile squadrons actually impact our national security? The other 89% are not enough of a deterrent? (Not to mention the other two sides of the triad). Personally, I don’t think that the loss of a single squad, or even two, or possibly even half would be causing china to be invading us, as that is the definition you are using for things that impact our national security. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/311 "2017-07-27T21:02:19Z")
The “national security” hijack is really pointless and beating one’s head against a tree in the midst of an unnoticed forest. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/312 "2017-07-27T21:13:52Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It’s a misstep by Trump. What he should have done is to issue a statement saying that transgenders would be welcome to serve their country but before they enlist their gender must be fixed one way or the other. Military spending would not cover operations to change gender. That hardly seems an oppressive thing to do. I’m genuinely curious here. What other medical issues do you think military menbers should be denied treatment for? You do have a sound medical reason they should be denied treatment, right? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/313 "2017-07-27T21:37:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It is good that Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joseph Dunford, Jr. has declared that there will be no changes to the policy until “the President’s direction has been received by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation guidance” > > In other words, he has made it clear that Trump’s idiotic tweets do not have any authority whatsoever. > > “Dunford himself was [not aware that Trump was going to announce](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/27/defense-department-to-trump-on-transgender-ban-not-so-fast.html) the ban, a U.S. official said.” > > So at this point, it is just Trump’s opinion. It bears no official weight at all. And he didn’t bother to tell anyone before he spewed it out into the twitterverse. I’d love to know who “HIS” Generals and others he spoke with. Likely this is just made up bullshit as well. Waaaaah! Whiny loser Joint Chiefs can’t accept that Hillary lost the election. Nothing more refreshing than a cup of military top brass tears while watching United States Department of Defense heads explode. Suck it up, snowflakes! #MAGA ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/314 "2017-07-27T21:48:10Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > The “national security” hijack is really pointless and beating one’s head against a tree in the midst of an unnoticed forest. I fully respect your personal focus on transgendered people’s rights and freedoms but national security is neither pointless nor a hijack when discussing military hiring practices. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/315 "2017-07-27T23:05:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You do have a sound medical reason they should be denied treatment, right? I have to say…reassignment surgery seems like the ultimate in elective surgery. I understand that it might be needed for once to live a happier, more fulfilled life but it never occurred to me that this was covered when someone was in the military. There is no medical need for it. I am OK with them having it doneand continuing to serve in the military, but it should be out of pocket. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/316 "2017-07-27T23:09:59Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I have to say…reassignment surgery seems like the ultimate in elective surgery. I understand that it might be needed for once to live a happier, more fulfilled life but it never occurred to me that this was covered when someone was in the military. > > **There is no medical need for it.** I am OK with them having it doneand continuing to serve in the military, but it should be out of pocket. Re: Bold. Are you a doctor? Or their doctor? I know I am not, and thus in no position to determine that. Edit to add: Which is to say, if it is determined that it is NOT needed, then I agree with you, it should be out of pocket. Which I think it already is, but i could be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/317 "2017-07-27T23:19:28Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I have to say…reassignment surgery seems like the ultimate in elective surgery. **I understand that it might be needed for once to live a happier, more fulfilled life** but it never occurred to me that this was covered when someone was in the military. > > There is no medical need for it. I am OK with them having it doneand continuing to serve in the military, but it should be out of pocket. Erectile dysfunction drugs are prescribed for PTSD for the same reason at 10 times the cost of re-assignment surgery. Or do you claim no medical need for the drugs? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/318 "2017-07-27T23:22:10Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Erectile dysfunction drugs are prescribed for PTSD for the same reason at 10 times the cost of re-assignment surgery. > > Or do you claim no medical need for the drugs? Slight hijack. Are you saying erectile dysfunction is a symptom of PTSD? I hadn’t heard that before. It doesn’t surprise me, I just never considered it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/319 "2017-07-27T23:37:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I fully respect your personal focus on transgendered people’s rights and freedoms but national security is neither pointless nor a hijack when discussing military hiring practices. I, for one, readily agree that this disgustingly broad policy will result in good troops being kicked out for no reason, and that makes our military less capable in some way. But I do agree with **Una** ’s point (or at least what I think she’s saying) is that when the tsunami is hitting New York City, worrying about how the damage to theaters will impact the arts is a secondary concern to the enormous fucking disaster that is raining down. Hateful intolerance is the major problem here, not the loss of some combat capability. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/320 "2017-07-27T23:42:49Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Slight hijack. > > Are you saying erectile dysfunction is a symptom of PTSD? I hadn’t heard that before. It doesn’t surprise me, I just never considered it. Just going by the articles that state the military prescribes ED drugs as part of treatment of PTSD. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159.md?page=17)