# Trump's ban on transgender individuals in the military **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159 "2017-07-26T14:09:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/21 "2017-07-26T15:11:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It’s pretty weird to decide to kick out several thousand service members who are already in uniform for no good reason. I’d go with “stupid” more than weird. But the military has been using stupid reasons to kick people out of the military for years. Why is this time such a threat to national security? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/22 "2017-07-26T15:13:45Z")
That’s 15 000 more people without jobs, because of Trump. #MAGA ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/23 "2017-07-26T15:14:01Z")
Was there a debate here? Off to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/24 "2017-07-26T15:18:39Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > That’s 15 000 more people without jobs, because of Trump. #MAGA And being kicked out of the military will look _great_ on the ol’ resume. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/25 "2017-07-26T15:21:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It’s pretty weird to decide to kick out several thousand service members who are already in uniform for no good reason. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > The rat bastard takes away the rights of thousands of Americans via Twitter, after claiming that he would be better for them than Hillary. What kind of discharge will they receive? How will this effect the benefits of those being kicked out and those that have retired? > Which(if any) of our military leaders will stand up and protest this back-stabbing? I don’t want to distract from the outrage-fest. But, my understanding is that transgendered individuals have never been allowed to serve in the military. Ash Carter announced a change in that policy, but delayed its implementation for a year to review. Mattis extended the review six months. And Trump has called the whole thing off. Aren’t we now exactly where we were two years ago? What am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/26 "2017-07-26T15:23:02Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I don’t want to distract from the outrage-fest. But, my understanding is that transgendered individuals have never been allowed to serve in the military. Ash Carter announced a change in that policy, but delayed its implementation for a year to review. Mattis extended the review six months. And Trump has called the whole thing off. Aren’t we now exactly where we were two years ago? What am I missing? The six-month review is on whether transgender _recruits_ will be allowed. The Obama administration said that current transgender military personnel can serve openly. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/27 "2017-07-26T15:23:58Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > An anonymous White House official told a reporter that it was to force Rust Belt Democrats to defend transgender people in 2018. Isn’t this SOP now? Gay marriage bans, bathroom bills, etc. Go on the attack first, so when Dems defend they can say that’s all they care about. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/28 "2017-07-26T15:25:19Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > The six-month review is on whether transgender _recruits_ will be allowed. The Obama administration said that current transgender military personnel can serve openly. Got it. So we _are_ where we were two years ago. But (and I didn’t realize this) there were actual changes in the interim. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/29 "2017-07-26T15:26:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The rat bastard takes away the rights of thousands of Americans via Twitter, after claiming that he would be better for them than Hillary. What kind of discharge will they receive? How will this effect the benefits of those being kicked out and those that have retired? > Which(if any) of our military leaders will stand up and protest this back-stabbing? They better get an Honorable, with FULL benefits. Anyone close to retirement, should be allowed to retire - don’t fuck them out of that. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/30 "2017-07-26T15:27:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But the military has been using stupid reasons to kick people out of the military for years. Any stupid reasons you can think of that could result in many thousands of service members being forced to leave? > [@Falchion](#): > > But, my understanding is that transgendered individuals have never been allowed to serve in the military. There are anywhere from a few thousand to 15,000 in uniform today, counting both active and reserve components. And research by the RAND Corporation concluded that there appears to be “little or no impact on unit cohesion, operational effectiveness, or readiness” in allowing transgendered individuals to serve. [http://www.rand.org/pubs/research\_reports/RR1530.html](http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1530.html) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/31 "2017-07-26T15:28:12Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I can’t wait to hear our local Trumpists defending this one. They will. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/32 "2017-07-26T15:29:25Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > “I’m not a bigot, I just voted for a bigot to be President.” > “I’m not a bigot, I just support bigotted policies and those who push them” > “I’m not a bigot.” Bunch of lying cowards ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/33 "2017-07-26T15:31:35Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > That’s 15 000 more people without jobs, because of Trump. #MAGA That’s 15,000 people with combat, intel and technical training that can’t be replaced overnight. That’s 15,000 examples of “don’t trust your government to honor any deals they make with you or anyone else”. That’s 15,000 examples of “loyalty will be repaid with treachery”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/34 "2017-07-26T15:42:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Any stupid reasons you can think of that could result in many thousands of service members being forced to leave? I’m sure I can. However, it’s not relevant to my question of why this is harmful to national security? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/35 "2017-07-26T15:46:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m sure I can. However, it’s not relevant to my question of why this is harmful to national security? Because if you can’t back up what you say, you’re full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/36 "2017-07-26T15:47:57Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > He said the military can’t afford the medical expense or the “disruption.” What a mofo. We cannot allow the transgenders to tarnish the sterling record of fiscal prudence from the military! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/37 "2017-07-26T15:48:35Z")
Its quite simple. This was an Obama policy, and Trump is intent on destroying anything and everything Obama did. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/38 "2017-07-26T15:52:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Because if you can’t back up what you say, you’re full of shit. I’m not the one who said this was harmful to national security. It seems to me that the person who made that statement should be the one to back it up. The only statement I made was that I think it is more stupid than weird in response to another posters statement. If you think this policy is harmful to national security, then show why it is. “Upwards of 15,000 people will be kicked out” is not a satisfying answer, since the Army drew down more than that in the last year alone. If you want to make this yet another case of “You don’t agree 100% with what I said, you are a horrible bigot who hates transgender people and puppies too, probably!” then fine, go ahead if that is what makes you feel better. I personally feel that this policy is stupid, and is harmful to transgender individuals that want to serve in their country’s military. I simply disagree that kicking them out is harmful to national security. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/39 "2017-07-26T15:55:33Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m sure I can. However, it’s not relevant to my question of why this is harmful to national security? Are you serious? Kicking out people with skills, talents, and experience hurts the military and thus our national security. Saying that a broad category which likely includes tens or hundreds of thousands (or more) who might one day serve can’t ever serve means that we’re missing out on lots of potentially talented people who could benefit the military. All of this very obviously harms national security. Our military is weaker if this policy goes through. Is this not obvious to you? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159/40 "2017-07-26T15:58:04Z")
Military “draw-downs” deliberately look for the least-critical folks to push out – they don’t kick out people with very needed skills that are hard to find. This ban doesn’t take into account the skills and experience of those being kicked out, and the needs of the service branches. Some skills (certain languages, certain technical skills, etc.) are very hard to fill, and it’s likely that some of these roles are filled by transgender service men and women. This means gaps in critical positions that are hard to fill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-the-military/792159.md?page=3)