# Trump's Cabinet of Curiosities **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 10, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367 "2016-11-10T16:28:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/401 "2016-12-09T17:53:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s a _great_ idea! Let’s sidetrack this thread by rehashing what has already been discussed before, both here and in a lot of other threads on the subject. Embarrassed Republicans love to change the subject. He ought to be telling us how great Trump’s choices are! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/402 "2016-12-09T17:53:54Z")
[McMorris Rodgers to be Trump’s Interior pick](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/12/09/mcmorris-rodgers-trumps-interior-pick/95197748/) They’re having Spotted Owl on the White House menu come January. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/403 "2016-12-09T18:03:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You said “most”. The [RCP tracker](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/trump_cabinet/index.html) shows that Trump has named 20 people, 10 of which are to cabinet posts. How many of these 10/20 people do you think do not “support the mission of the Department or Agency they’re appointed to”, and which ones are they? Steve Mnunchin in Treasury - Shady banker overseeing bankers reminds me of something about a fox guarding the henhouse. James Mattis in Defense - Yes, he’s a well-respected general, and I like him. He’s also a lifelong military man and only recently retired. He’s the antithesis of civilian oversight of the military. Unfortunately, there’s no Secretary of Ass-Kicking. Betsy Devos - She openly advocates against public schooling. Need I continue? Ben Carson in HUD - A surgeon with no coherent economic policies, aside from basing his tax plan on tithing. The last time he was in a city, he lost his luggage. “Increase homeownership, support community development and increase access to affordable housing free from discrimination”? He may not be contrary to the stated mission, but that’s simply because he hasn’t given a clear position on anything. Nothing about his says “this man is perfect for this position.” Jeff Sessions as AG - Those charges of racism just ain’t going away. He’s repeatedly advocated against legal protections for the LGBT community repeatedly. He supports torture…oops, “enhanced interrogation”. That’s half your cabinet. I may disagree with some of the politics of the others, but that’s irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/404 "2016-12-09T18:04:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s a _great_ idea! Let’s sidetrack this thread by rehashing what has already been discussed before, both here and in a lot of other threads on the subject. I actually thought i was helping to bring the thread back to the original topic: Trump’s cabinet picks, rather than letting it descend into snarky irrelevance. It looks like it didn’t work though. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/405 "2016-12-09T18:09:02Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > [McMorris Rodgers to be Trump’s Interior pick](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/12/09/mcmorris-rodgers-trumps-interior-pick/95197748/) > > They’re having Spotted Owl on the White House menu come January. A Bundy sympathizer, sweet! 6/11 now. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/406 "2016-12-09T18:11:35Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Steve Mnunchin in Treasury - Shady banker overseeing bankers reminds me of something about a fox guarding the henhouse. > > James Mattis in Defense - Yes, he’s a well-respected general, and I like him. He’s also a lifelong military man and only recently retired. He’s the antithesis of civilian oversight of the military. Unfortunately, there’s no Secretary of Ass-Kicking. > > Betsy Devos - She openly advocates against public schooling. Need I continue? > > Ben Carson in HUD - A surgeon with no coherent economic policies, aside from basing his tax plan on tithing. The last time he was in a city, he lost his luggage. “Increase homeownership, support community development and increase access to affordable housing free from discrimination”? He may not be contrary to the stated mission, but that’s simply because he hasn’t given a clear position on anything. Nothing about his says “this man is perfect for this position.” > > Jeff Sessions as AG - Those charges of racism just ain’t going away. He’s repeatedly advocated against legal protections for the LGBT community repeatedly. He supports torture…oops, “enhanced interrogation”. > > That’s half your cabinet. I may disagree with some of the politics of the others, but that’s irrelevant. You said: > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > I would define “within normal parameters” as someone who supports the mission of the Department or Agency they’re appointed to. What has Mattis, for example, ever done to make you think he doesn’t “support the mission of the Department of Defense”. According to [their website](http://www.defense.gov/About-DoD): > [@](#): > > The mission of the Department of Defense is to provide the military forces needed to deter war and to protect the security of our country. Can we agree that James Mattis meets your definintion of “within normal parameters”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/407 "2016-12-09T18:23:01Z")
There’s a bunch of others on that list. Mattis is the best of the lot, I’m guessing that’s why you keep bringing him up. I can accept him, but can Trump? Why does Trump think Mattis is the reincarnation of Patton? Is it because he’s a Marine and has a nickname “Mad Dog”? He is straightforward enough, he’s not one of the fierce critics of The Donald who are rushing forward to kiss the brown ring and swear fealty. Il Douche likes loyalty. See the problem? Don’t worry, you will. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/408 "2016-12-09T18:25:31Z")
I don’t think there’s any evidence that Steve Mnunchin does not support the mission of the Treasury Department. The only thing you mentioned was that he is a banker, and so you don’t like him overseeing bankers, but that’s exactly what Obama gave us too. Jack Lew, the current Secretary of the Treasury, appointed by Obama, used to be the COO of CitiGroup. Did you feel like Lew was not a nominee “within normal parameters”? If you did feel like Lew was a fairly normal Secretary of the Treasury, can you accept that Mnunchin is too? Or do you still think he is not “within normal parameters”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/409 "2016-12-09T18:31:30Z")
I wouldn’t claim that Ben Carson has the perfect set of life experiences to make him the best HUD secretary ever, but, as you seem to acknowledge, there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that he’s opposed to the mission of HUD. So, we can agree that he’s “within normal parameters” too, right? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/410 "2016-12-09T18:32:47Z")
Mnuchin ran a bank that foreclosed on a 90 year old woman over a 27 cent underpayment. Something tells me that public service is not his forte. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/411 "2016-12-09T18:37:03Z")
The [Department of Justice lists their mission](https://www.justice.gov/about) as: > [@](#): > > To enforce the law and defend the interests of the United States according to the law; to ensure public safety against threats foreign and domestic; to provide federal leadership in preventing and controlling crime; to seek just punishment for those guilty of unlawful behavior; and to ensure fair and impartial administration of justice for all Americans. I haven’t read anything or seen anything that leads me to believe Jeff Sessions is unsupportive of this (admittedly broad list of platitudes). What’s your evidence that he is? Or can we accept that he is a nominee “within normal parameters” too? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/412 "2016-12-09T18:38:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Mnuchin ran a bank that foreclosed on a 90 year old woman over a 27 cent underpayment. Something tells me that public service is not his forte. That has nothing at all to do with whether or not he does not “support the mission of the Department or Agency [he is] appointed to”. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/413 "2016-12-09T18:38:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You said: > > What has Mattis, for example, ever done to make you think he doesn’t “support the mission of the Department of Defense”. According to [their website](http://www.defense.gov/About-DoD): > > Can we agree that James Mattis meets your definintion of “within normal parameters”? [QUOTE=10 U.S.C. § 11] There is a Secretary of Defense, who is the head of the Department of Defense, appointed from civilian life by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. A person may not be appointed as Secretary of Defense within seven years after relief from active duty as a commissioned officer of a regular component of an armed force. [/QUOTE] He’s not a civilian in the eyes of the law, and he won’t be until almost the end of Trump’s term. That’s been waived once in 70 years, and I don’t see a reason to fight that precedent. In fact, going back 50 years, every SecDef with military experience had been out of the military for 15 years or more, and none of them reached even battalion command rank, let alone 4-star general. He seems to be a great guy, and a great leader. SecDef, he ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/414 "2016-12-09T18:44:45Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > SecDef, he ain’t. He’s probably going to be the next SecDef. I’ll even make a wager with you, if you like. But none of that is my point. You said: > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > I would define “within normal parameters” as someone who supports the mission of the Department or Agency they’re appointed to. Do you have any reason to think Mattis is not “within normal parameters” according to the definition _you_ provided? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/415 "2016-12-09T18:51:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Not in reality-based memories of 2009. Obama bent over backwards to get Republicans to buy into the ACA. After giving concession after concession, it became clear that Republicans had no interest in voting for it no matter how many concessions they got. Democrats held out their hands in the spirit of bipartisanship only to receive the middle digit in return. Which portions of the ACA do you think were concessions to Republicans? I think the Dem leadership made a lot of concessions to wavering, moderate Democrats to keep them on board, and not much of any to Republicans. But I’m open to being persuaded otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/416 "2016-12-09T18:58:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Which portions of the ACA do you think were concessions to Republicans? I think the Dem leadership made a lot of concessions to wavering, moderate Democrats to keep them on board, and not much of any to Republicans. But I’m open to being persuaded otherwise. Not sure if this will change your mind, but [The Economist](http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/10/daily-chart-1) found a lot of GOP parentage in the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/417 "2016-12-09T19:07:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think there’s any evidence that Steve Mnunchin does not support the mission of the Treasury Department. The only thing you mentioned was that he is a banker, and so you don’t like him overseeing bankers, but that’s exactly what Obama gave us too. Jack Lew, the current Secretary of the Treasury, appointed by Obama, used to be the COO of CitiGroup. Did you feel like Lew was not a nominee “within normal parameters”? If you did feel like Lew was a fairly normal Secretary of the Treasury, can you accept that Mnunchin is too? Or do you still think he is not “within normal parameters”? “Obama did it too!” is a trash argument. Give me something with meat. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I haven’t read anything or seen anything that leads me to believe Jeff Sessions is unsupportive of this (admittedly broad list of platitudes). What’s your evidence that he is? Or can we accept that he is a nominee “within normal parameters” too? If you amend it to say “ensure public safety for straight, white citizens against threats foreign and domestic”, then he’d fit. It’s been testified that he referred to the NAACP and ACLU as un-American and communist-inspired. He voted against the Matthew Shepard Act, which defined crimes based on sexual orientation and gender identity as hate crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/418 "2016-12-09T19:11:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > He’s probably going to be the next SecDef. I’ll even make a wager with you, if you like. But none of that is my point. You said: > > Do you have any reason to think Mattis is not “within normal parameters” according to the definition _you_ provided? My wagers end in tattoos. Did you miss civilian oversight of the military, or do you just keep ignoring it? I’ll make it simple. The Secretary of Defense serves as part of civilian oversight of the military. James Mattis is not a civilian. As such, he cannot serve as part of the civilian oversight of the military. Make him SecDef in 2020, or preferably 2024, and I’m all aboard, no qualms at all. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/419 "2016-12-09T19:19:51Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > My wagers end in tattoos. > > Did you miss civilian oversight of the military, or do you just keep ignoring it? I’ll make it simple. The Secretary of Defense serves as part of civilian oversight of the military. James Mattis is not a civilian. As such, he cannot serve as part of the civilian oversight of the military. Make him SecDef in 2020, or preferably 2024, and I’m all aboard, no qualms at all. Is there any specific reason to set aside this rule has only very reluctantly set aside over a century ago? ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/420 "2016-12-09T19:23:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s EXACTLY how the Democrats governed in 2009. Cite or retract. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367.md?page=22)